reliable

[t2rew]

no need to get all defensive. you wrote quite a bit there and managed to rattle off a few rotary problems at the same time as saying you think this time round they might have got it right. i hope they have , i love the rotary lump, its smooth and revs high and with a turbo goes well too, but i can only think that you havent had one blow up on you YET. if indeed you own one.


i have two turbo II`s both have engine problems. they have both had rebuilds around 40,000 miles ago and the last owner of the one that just blew up tells me he was crazy about droping the oil out every 3000 miles. like i say i really do hope they get it right this time coz in 12 years time when i can afford one i really dont want to have to rebuild it.

[Glenn Butcher]

One of the keys to the reliability of the RX-8 will be that it isn't turbo charged. Some of the older 1st generation RX-7's are still going around today with their original engines.

One mistake that many people make is changing things like exhaust and intakes etc. on their turbo rotary - the factory ECU runs the RX-7's very lean. So the slightest little change can make a big difference.

Like always - when playing around with these cars, you must ensure it is running rich with a proper wide band lambda sensor.

I think the RX-8 is going to be a huge success, I also think it will do 100,000 miles no problems (unless people start tinkering with them!) :)

[zoom44]

Originally posted by jason turner
i have two turbo II`s both have engine problems. they have both had rebuilds around 40,000 miles ago and the last owner of the one that just blew up tells me he was crazy about droping the oil out every 3000 miles. like i say i really do hope they get it right this time coz in 12 years time when i can afford one i really dont want to have to rebuild it.

and how many miles did they each have at the time of the rebuilds? what was actually done during the rebuilds? and how well do you trust the skills and rotary knowledge of the people that did the rebuilds? also what have you done as far as maintainence or not done in the last 40,000 miles and how do you drive them?

edit: by the way did you know that you can post a reply in the thread you are replying to, instead of starting a new thread?

[richrx]

hey, how much difference will tuning a 3rd gen make to its final milage. I wanted to do:

Exaust
intake
ecu
intercooler
fuel cut defencor(if its needed on a 3rd gen)
eletronic boost controller

what do yous think????i've heard that its not too bad if done properly. i would hope for around 100000 miles before a rebuild. I would of course carry out proper maintenance eg oil change every 2000 miles etc.

one more queston, when driving them how should they be driven? easy all the time? or is it ok too red line em alot??:p

cheers rich

[richrx]

sorry about the spelling mistakes its late and im tired.:o

[Glenn Butcher]

Well, not an easy one to answer...

But - tuning or increasing the performance on any car (rotary or not) will reduce the longevity of the engine.

Mazda spends millions developing the engine's etc. As we know an FD usually requires a rebuild/refresh around 50,000-60,000 miles.

Going on that basis, if you increase performance etc. then of course they will not last as long. You will not get 100,000 miles out of it. You wouldn't get that much out of any modified engine rotor/piston.

You can make incredible power out of the turbo rotary engine - but whatever is done, it has to be done right.

If you made those mods. to your engine/car then I would expect you will be cutting short its lifespan - it is inevitable.

As for the order you should do your mods. in:

1. ECU (with lambda sensor tune)
2. Intercooler (with lambda sensor tune)
3. Exhaust (with lambda sensor tune)
4. Intake (with lambda sensor tune)
5. Any other mods. (with lambda sensor tune)

(with lambda sensor tune) is important!!! don't guess on how rich/lean it is running, KNOW how rich/lean it is running.

Again I would recommend the MoTeC ECU as being the best product on the market, MoTeC also do boost control etc..



As for your other questions:

Like most cars, they should be driven as often as possible. Carbon build-up in the rotary engine can cause major problems. Once your engine is warm (not just on the water temperature gauge) as the important thing is oil. Only then should you give it a hard time.

Every time you drive the car you should take it to the red line at least once.

Make sure you cool the turbo and oil down by leaving the car run for a few mins. before switching off.

[MikeLMR]

Every time you drive the car you should take it to the red line at least once

hehehehe thats not usually a problem :D

[t2rew]

first off,this is the first forum i have ever seen but thanks zoom for poiting out that you can follow on. i think i found out how to do it now..

im getting a vibe that you and your mate blue think i am against the 13 b. i would like to clear this up. i really do love the little engine but my situation is that i bought the first turbo two no more than about 3 months ago and the last owner told me how well he looked after his baby,oil changed every 3000 miles. the oil on the dip stick was clean so i have no doubt this is true.i got it home and changed the oil and then changed it again after 2500 miles. i drive hard but most of the time i am in traffic.

i bought the other one as a car with problems with the idea of keeping it for spares athough i now changed the turbo and am driving it coz the other car having covered 3000 miles in my care has gone bang. the first car done 60 000 miles before a company that i wont name but are in my opinion good rebuilt it, it has done 40 000. the other car had its engine done at 80 000 , it still works but i drive very slowly in it now. i will do the rebuild myself and will make sure it is done properly but i dont expect any more than 40 000 miles as i will be tuning it a bit. there must be more people out there who have had engines go on them coz all the ones for sale all say" resent rebuild " i can only imagen that you have done no more than 5000 miles and you havent had anything go wrong which is why you are trying to make me sound like the only one in the world to experiance problems.

[Glenn Butcher]

Hi Jason,

Over the many years I have played around with Mazda's I have had a number of engines fail on me...BUT I can say that every failure was my fault! either because: I pushed too much out of the engine - not really knowing what I was doing, or too much boost and not enough fuel, or running the engine out of oil with my very first car :( YOU DO LIVE AND LEARN! :)

Some of the others were racing engine's, one which I know was from over reving (I checked the MoTeC data logging and found that I had over reved to around 12,600rpm! - that was on downshifting). Reason was that it was my first real racecar - and the guy who owned it before me did not use a tachometer :mad: - but I then installed one after the engine was rebuilt and enjoyed a number of track days out before selling it, then coming over to England. Some pics of RX-4 (http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_photos.htm) are here:

<table cellSpacing="15" cellPadding="3" border="3" align="center"><tr><td><div align="center"><A href="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_01.jpg"><IMG height=214 src="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_01a.jpg" width=340 border=0></A></div></td><td><div align="center"><A href="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_08.jpg"><IMG height=218 src="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_08a.jpg" width=340 border=0></A></div></td></tr>

[richrx]

Originally posted by gbutcher
Well, not an easy one to answer...

But - tuning or increasing the performance on any car (rotary or not) will reduce the longevity of the engine.

Mazda spends millions developing the engine's etc. As we know an FD usually requires a rebuild/refresh around 50,000-60,000 miles.

Going on that basis, if you increase performance etc. then of course they will not last as long. You will not get 100,000 miles out of it. You wouldn't get that much out of any modified engine rotor/piston.

You can make incredible power out of the turbo rotary engine - but whatever is done, it has to be done right.

If you made those mods. to your engine/car then I would expect you will be cutting short its lifespan - it is inevitable.

As for the order you should do your mods. in:

1. ECU (with lambda sensor tune)
2. Intercooler (with lambda sensor tune)
3. Exhaust (with lambda sensor tune)
4. Intake (with lambda sensor tune)
5. Any other mods. (with lambda sensor tune)

(with lambda sensor tune) is important!!! don't guess on how rich/lean it is running, KNOW how rich/lean it is running.

Again I would recommend the MoTeC ECU as being the best product on the market, MoTeC also do boost control etc..



As for your other questions:

Like most cars, they should be driven as often as possible. Carbon build-up in the rotary engine can cause major problems. Once your engine is warm (not just on the water temperature gauge) as the important thing is oil. Only then should you give it a hard time.

Every time you drive the car you should take it to the red line at least once.

Make sure you cool the turbo and oil down by leaving the car run for a few mins. before switching off.

CHEERS THATS JUST BACKED UP WHAT I THOUGHT EXEPT THE BIT ABOUT PISTON ENGINGS NOT REACHING 100,000 MILES. iV GOT A 2.0 8V CAVALIER WITH 175,000 NO RE-BUILD WITH CAM AND IT RUNS EXELENT(THOUGH YOUR PROBABLPY MEANING MORE SERIOUS TUNING). THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO. WILL HITTING THE RED LINE 60 TIMES A DAY DO DAMAGE??? LOL:p

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by richrx


CHEERS THATS JUST BACKED UP WHAT I THOUGHT EXEPT THE BIT ABOUT PISTON ENGINGS NOT REACHING 100,000 MILES. iV GOT A 2.0 8V CAVALIER WITH 175,000 NO RE-BUILD WITH CAM AND IT RUNS EXELENT(THOUGH YOUR PROBABLPY MEANING MORE SERIOUS TUNING). THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO. WILL HITTING THE RED LINE 60 TIMES A DAY DO DAMAGE??? LOL:p

Yep - I meant "Serious Tuning" i.e. any seriously tuned piston engine to keep up with a reasonably tuned rotary :)

[t2rew]

Originally posted by gbutcher
Hi Jason,

Over the many years I have played around with Mazda's I have had a number of engines fail on me...BUT I can say that every failure was my fault! either because: I pushed too much out of the engine - not really knowing what I was doing, or too much boost and not enough fuel, or running the engine out of oil with my very first car :( YOU DO LIVE AND LEARN! :)

Some of the others were racing engine's, one which I know was from over reving (I checked the MoTeC data logging and found that I had over reved to around 12,600rpm! - that was on downshifting). Reason was that it was my first real racecar - and the guy who owned it before me did not use a tachometer :mad: - but I then installed one after the engine was rebuilt and enjoyed a number of track days out before selling it, then coming over to England. Some pics of RX-4 (http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_photos.htm) are here:

<table cellSpacing="15" cellPadding="3" border="3" align="center"><tr><td><div align="center"><A href="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_01.jpg"><IMG height=214 src="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_01a.jpg" width=340 border=0></A></div></td><td><div align="center"><A href="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_08.jpg"><IMG height=218 src="http://www.mymazdarotary.com/mazda_rotary/rx-4_racecar/rx-4_racecar_photos/rx-4_racecar_08a.jpg" width=340 border=0></A></div></td></tr>




nice car. it is good to see that you know a thing or two about rx`s. you say that the only reason for blown engines was you fault but there must be poeple you know whos engine expired early. only last months performance jap mag had gary tyrrells fd and he had to rebuild. i look at the rotary a bit like a two stroke engine. they offer allot more power per cc than four stoke but the down side is they dont last as long. as long as your aware of this when buying i dont see a problem. it would be nice if parts were cheaper though.

[zoom44]

jsaon,
sorry i did not mean to imply that you were the only one to have problems or that you have done something wrong.only that there are many variables as to why an engine would need rebuilt. the main problem with turbo rotaries is heat. the cooling system cant keep up with the heat produced by the turbos. so they seem to need redone at about 60,000. what you have to watch out for is any aftermarket tweaking. if this is done without regards to keeping the oil temp and coolant temp down then the life expectancy between rebuilds is reduced. hard driving to the redline without letting the engine cooldown before shutting it down will also shorten life expectancy. also after the first rebuilds perhaps the seals did not get a chance to seat properly before they were driven hard. there is a "break in" period for any new or rebuilt wether it is a piston or a rotory engine. with out care and proper oil changes during this time you can have problems. i would suggest doing alot of research before doing the rebuilds yourself i don't know how much experience you have and you may have quite a bit, but a rotory is a high performance engine with very close tolerances and should only be done by a very qualified person.

[Mark Ide]

well Officer, I was reading this webpage that said that I should take the car to the red line at least once, and...
:p :rolleyes: :p

[MikeLMR]

On the topic of reliability and the RX8 I have heard rumours that they are having problems with carbon lock on the side seals due to the side port exhaust config, and that the release date may slip :(

maybee one of the Mazda peeps that are meant to be reading this forum can confirm/deny ?

This would be the last thing the rotary needs :(

[BlueAdept]

Originally posted by jason turner
first off,this is the first forum i have ever seen but thanks zoom for poiting out that you can follow on. i think i found out how to do it now..

im getting a vibe that you and your mate blue think i am against the 13 b. i would like to clear this up. i really do love the little engine but my situation is that i bought the first turbo two no more than about 3 months ago and the last owner told me how well he looked after his baby,oil changed every 3000 miles. the oil on the dip stick was clean so i have no doubt this is true.i got it home and changed the oil and then changed it again after 2500 miles. i drive hard but most of the time i am in traffic.

i bought the other one as a car with problems with the idea of keeping it for spares athough i now changed the turbo and am driving it coz the other car having covered 3000 miles in my care has gone bang. the first car done 60 000 miles before a company that i wont name but are in my opinion good rebuilt it, it has done 40 000. the other car had its engine done at 80 000 , it still works but i drive very slowly in it now. i will do the rebuild myself and will make sure it is done properly but i dont expect any more than 40 000 miles as i will be tuning it a bit. there must be more people out there who have had engines go on them coz all the ones for sale all say" resent rebuild " i can only imagen that you have done no more than 5000 miles and you havent had anything go wrong which is why you are trying to make me sound like the only one in the world to experiance problems.

apologies... I didn't mean to be a bit too defensive, I've only really had any experience with NA rotaries... the 3rd gen does seem to have more than it's fair share of problems, although heat has always been the enemy of the rotary engine and being the first production car to have sequential twin turbo's couldn't have helped.