20B Cosmo

[JamesFD3]

Thought I'd post up some fresh pictures of my 20B JC Cosmo.This is one hell of a car!! Luxury cruiser and fantastic performance when you need it,just ask the chap in the M3 that tried to overtake:D

[JamesFD3]

and another....

[JamesFD3]

and another......

[JamesFD3]

and another...

[20B_boy]

Gorgeous.

[scooby_si]

cooor :god didn't know Hinckley had that much grass <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_2_123.gif' border=0></a> lol
cant wait to see it in the flesh er metal er u no wot i mean.......
Si

[Glenn Butcher]

G'Day James,

That is one hell of a nice looking car.

How do you find the brakes on yours? I remember with Steve's (bro's) they were a bit of a weak point - faded pretty quickly.

[20B_boy]

Steve still have his, Butch?

[JamesFD3]

Hi all,

The pictures were taken out near Bruntingthorpe,we tried to go and have a play on the 2 mile straight but somehow I think there were'nt going to let us:(
Funny you should mention the brakes Glen as it's the first thing I picked up on,there rather weak are'nt they,I was out having a play last night and was getting some juddering and fade after only a few high speed stops.Hmmmm, will have to find a solution to that one.

Overall though the car is a real gem,drives beautifully and is easily as fast as a stock 255BHP RX-7 in a straight line.Also if you keep the car in D3 and just cruise the fuel is not as bad as I was expecting.

Cheers

James

[scooby_si]

James were you after a proper play round Bruntingthorpe, no promsises but i maybe able to wangle (or should that be wankle ) sumin as i defo wana play & a friend reckoned he could get me on cheaper than usual. As i say not 100% of that but i'll ask the next time i see him......
Si

[JamesFD3]

G'day Si,

Thanks for the offer but I was half joking about Brunters:)

I've been there twice with my RX-7 and it was really bad for stone chips.The Cosmo is a show and touring car really I guess,would'nt want to risk damaging such a rare car.


Cheers

James

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by 20B_boy
Steve still have his, Butch?

Yep - "MAD 20B" is on the road! Quite a few Cosmo's around Sydney now, they are starting to play quite a bit with them also. There is a PP single turbo one up in Queensland - what a sleeper!

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by JamesFD3
Hi all,

The pictures were taken out near Bruntingthorpe,we tried to go and have a play on the 2 mile straight but somehow I think there were'nt going to let us:(
Funny you should mention the brakes Glen as it's the first thing I picked up on,there rather weak are'nt they,I was out having a play last night and was getting some juddering and fade after only a few high speed stops.Hmmmm, will have to find a solution to that one.

Overall though the car is a real gem,drives beautifully and is easily as fast as a stock 255BHP RX-7 in a straight line.Also if you keep the car in D3 and just cruise the fuel is not as bad as I was expecting.

Cheers

James

Yeah, I remember Steve's not liking a few hard stops. I believe a few guys here have upgraded the brakes to the Series 8 RX-7's on the front. Not sure how much is involved but I know a guy who knows how to do it. It is a difficult one as it will never really go around corners quickly because of its weight - be a bloody good drift car though.

[JamesFD3]

G'day Glen,

Yeah,the car is a real sleeper even in standard trim,a real Q' car.
The engine is like silk,super smooth and pulls hard from very low revs.
The engine has flooded a couple of times though,I'm told this is common with 20B JC Cosmo's,the car is fitted with an R-Magic spinner switch which allows you to spin the rotors without the ignition on to wash all the excess fuel from the housings.You then turn the ignition on and press the button again and it always catches first time.
Thanks for the tip on the RX-7 brakes,I'll have a close look at the Cosmo's front brakes and see whats needed to mount the RX-7 calipers up front.It does feel a bit underbraked with 1640kg's to haul up.

Regards

James

[Glenn Butcher]

What plugs are in it James? should have 6's in the leading (I think 7's in the trailing - can't remember exactly).

[Shark]

WOW!

Please tell me this is going to be at Rotorstock.

please.

Gregor

[JamesFD3]

Not sure of the plugs Glen,as I have'nt really had chance to look at it in detail yet.All I've done so far is two oil changes in less than 150 miles! and a fresh Mazda airfilter which had to be ordered from Japan.
Will check the plugs later and let you know.

Cheers

James

[JamesFD3]

Glen,

Just whipped out the plugs and I have NGK BUR9EQ's Trailing and BUR7EQ's Leading,plugs look fine,usual light deposits with no sign of any fuel contamination.

Do you know if these are the correct plugs Glen?

Cheers

James

[antnicuk]

Thats a lovelly example, they are a stunning car to drive.

We played with our donor 20b Cosmo before we broke it for the engine and box. On a G meter we recorded a 0-60 time or 7.5 seconds. We then threw away the air box and put a cone on it, took the cats out, put an electric fan on it to remove the coupling fan. Without touching the boost we got the 0 - 60 time to 5.5. If you put a boost controller on it to maintain boost at 9 psi you get a further MASSIVE increase in power. If you put a boost guage on it, you will notice that it peaks at about 9 -- 10 psi but quickly drops to 6 or 7. I assume the ecu does this via the duty solanoids. These cars are stunning as mazda intended but have great potential. Its a shame mazda didnt sell them here but i think fuel economy has something to do with it. I have never driven anything as bad!

[clive]

Originally posted by Shark
WOW!

Please tell me this is going to be at Rotorstock.

please.

Gregor

This great looking car will be onm the MRC stand at Rotorstock and Japfest.:D :D :D

[JamesFD3]

I think it would be a crying shame to break one of these cars as a donur vehicle for the engine,unless of course the car was already accident damaged etc.
The Cosmo is an extremely rare machine in Japan now and preservation is the name of the game,some have been exported to OZ and a tiny few make it to our shores,most being 13B powered examples but I personally don't know of another E-CCS 20B model in the UK like mine.I think mine maybe the only example,cannot say for sure on that one though.

However tempting it may be to tune the engine as obviously the 20B has massive power potential when tuned correctly I'll be keeping mine totally standard apart from frequent oil changes and servicing.

Regards

James

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by JamesFD3
Glen,

Just whipped out the plugs and I have NGK BUR9EQ's Trailing and BUR7EQ's Leading,plugs look fine,usual light deposits with no sign of any fuel contamination.

Do you know if these are the correct plugs Glen?

Cheers

James

Hi mate, I'll check with Steve as he has an owners manual (in Japanese but you can read the plug type) - I'm absolutely certain that 6's should be in the leading (from factory). But again, it depends how the car is driven. The theory is that as the engine isn't revved as hard as a 13B that it would need warmer plugs to burn the crap off cleanly. I think 7's are in the trailing on the standard ones - this is what I have to check.

[JamesFD3]

Many thanks for your help with the plugs Glen.

I know what you mean about the driving style,comparing it directly with my RX-7,the 20B is alot more torquey and you don't really need to rev as high to get the performance as you would with the 13B.
A mate with a V12 Jag has driven the car and says it feels very similiar in terms of smoothness and power delivery.
Apart from the ocassional flooding the engine runs perfect.

Cheers

James

[Tim_Burgess]

I run 6's leading & 9's trailing in my 13b. I managed to understand that much from the owners manual.

I would definitely agree that the standard brakes are not brilliant if you push them hard - 2 laps of Castle coome and I didn't hve any!

Cheers

[Ultraman_Cosmo]

I've just joined the Eunos Cosmo club now too, just bought the black 20B that was on Ebay :) Someone mentioned earlier that a 20B Cosmo was doing 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, I thought they were somewhat quicker than that? 5.9 seconds I had heard. How do others find theirs? I havent got it yet so don't know what's in store yet!

Phil.

[clive]

Real nice car you brought Phil, and it looked as if it was going to go real cheap when l looked at it on Ebay.

Many many thanks for bringing and shareing your Cosmo 110S to Rotorstock, people are still talking to me about your fantastic car!

p.s. please thank your mate with the RO80 for coming to Rotorstock for me as l didn't have time to sadly.

[JamesFD3]

Nice to hear of another Cosmo joining the ranks!They are awesome cars and are fantastic to drive.

Never knew there was one for sale on ebay though!! I did see a 20B for sale at Rotorstock for 4500 pounds,thought that was a bit cheap,owner perhaps needed a quick sale?looked a nice clean example though.
Mine is currently off the road being stripped for a rebuild,cannot wait to have her back on the road,Cosmo 20B's are real sleepers!!

Cheers

James

[Ultraman_Cosmo]

Well I picked the Cosmo up last night and currently have mixed emotions! The first reason being that I have two months to pay back the money I borrowed to buy it! And there are also a couple of technical problems with it and I'm hoping some of you who are knowledgeable on these may shed some light? Firstly the power, I'm actually quite disappointed in the performance of it. It feels like the power is there but its just not delivering it if that makes sense, it hesitates a lot. If you floor it from a standing start it does very little at first, once the turbo's kick in it starts to move a bit but doesnt feel anything like a six second car to me. I follwed a V6 Ford Cougar on the M25 back home from picking it up, and when the bloke booted it I couldnt stay with him! I understand that there can be a million and one reasons why it may not be performing properly and it's impossible to diagnose just from this, is there anyone that may be able to look at it for me at some point? There's a bit more under the bonnet than a Ro80 and I dont know what any of it does! Another problem is until I got home I hadnt tried it in reverse. When reversing, it doesnt want to move, you have to rev it quite hard, then it starts lurching and bunny hopping. It's like there is some resistence in the transmission. The brakes are very poor, without even hard braking the brakes are wobbling badly, it obviously has badly warped disks although i see from the service record that they've been previously skimmed. Are there any brake upgrades available? I know it was mentioned earlier on about fitting RX7 calipers? The last thing (not going into the niggly points at the mo) is the TV screen doesnt work, I just get a thin blue line like from a scope. Has anyone one attempted to replace these, either with another Eunos unit or a UK spec TV? I would think with the amount of front cuts I have seen it must be possible to get one from somewhere, I dont know of any spares sources as yet. Right, I wont ramble on any more! It's a beautiful looking car and I'm glad I've got to own one at last and hope with a little work, it'll meet my expectations!
Cheers.
Phil

PS, Clive, enjoyed the day, many thanks :) And James, it is the one from Rotorstock :)

[moakesr]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but be very careful with that transmission.

In *most* transmissions, reverse gear requires the highest hydraulic pressure, so it is often the gear in which you first notice problems.

Let's be positive and start with the cheap options, it might just need new transmission oil and a filter. If you don't have a nice dust free garage, I don't suggest changing this yourself, absolute cleanliness is a must. Make sure you get the right fluid, ie. Dexron II or Dexron III, the owners manual should tell you.

If it's really bust, I would imagine the best option would be a cosmo front end clip from someone like Tim at RX Motors, it's likely to be much cheaper than getting a tranmission specialist to strip down a gearbox he has never seen before.

I hope it's only fluid and filter, in fact 50% of autobox problems can be down to old or low fluid levels, so I have my fingers crossed for you.

As for the engine and power issues, I will let others who know more about Cosmo's make suggestions.

Best of luck,

Richard

[JamesFD3]

Hi Phil,

Sorry to hear that your car is not running 100%.Starting with the power delivery,a Cosmo 20B should be way faster that a V6 Couger so something's obviously amiss.After stripping mine down for a rebuild I'd be willing to bet it's something on the turbo control side of things.The state of some of the vacuum hoses pulled from mine was shocking,no wonder there was no boost on the second turbo!! Mine had stonking midrange and then ran totally out of puff after 5000rpm.

Brakes on these are generally crap,way underbraked for 300bhp and 1640kgs!! Will look into this when the rebuilds finished.

Hmmmm,sorry to say that the reverse gear problem you have sounds serious,I know Glen Butchers 20B Cosmo suddenly refused to go into reverse and I'm not sure but I think he either had it rebuilt or a new box was fitted,best to email Glen on this one though.The auto box fitted to the Cosmo is very complex,has the car been drag raced at any point in it's past?? This could overheat the autobox leading to serious damage.

TV could be a real pain to fix as there's more wiring behind the Cosmo E-CCS dashboard than the space shuttle!!best speak to a specialist about this.

Sorry to make this sound like doom and gloom Phil,I'm sure most of the faults can be fixed but as I'm quickly discovering with mine it ain't going to be cheap!! :-((

A Cosmo that is running 100% though is one of the best luxury cruisers in the world in my humble opinion so it will be worth sticking with the car.

Regards

James

[clive]

Hi Phil,

Sorry to hear all is not well with your new acquisition, l got involved when Glenn's brothers car died and l think we got it fully rebuilt for around £650, but l know Tim @ RX-Motors had complete Cosmo front end a while ago so you may get a S/H box there if need be.

If you remove a brake disc l may be able to help source one for you.

[Ultraman_Cosmo]

Thanks all, I'll report back when I've taken a closer look at it, not had a chance yet, not even got it insured yet even! Off to the NSU Treffen in Germany now to tear up the Autobahn's in my 36 year old Ro80 :)

Phil.

[Iwan]

HI Phil,

Cosmo is known for some main problems in Japan. Thay are thing, which will fail very often. The weak points are:

Air condition (they was a recall in Japan but not everyone has went to dialership)
Transmission (Cars with bad Transmissions are very often to find at Japanese auctions)
The TV Screen of ECCS versions. (VERY expansive unit! Very hard to find a used item in Japan, most of them are sold for 100.000YEN or more) A New screen can be ordered by Mazda! Costs in Germany: 3500 EUR! for the screen only. People on Japanese Cosmo forum told to me, that you can not repair the screen.
Engine Cooling. Cooling system is the next main weak point. This is the reason why engines will fail. A replacement radiator is strongly recommended. Stock radiators are known for broken plastic- tanks.
Brakes are the next weak Cosmo point. Fitting FD brakes are common in Japan. I have seen conversation to Nissan and Toyota brakes but never drove a Cosmo with converted discs. My Cosmo has stock brakes to. Brake discs are very expansive but you can order the discs directly from Mazda. I was able to successfully order the discs for my Cosmo from Mazda. Them arrived in just few days.
Suspension of E-Type is also known for problems. Replacement parts can be ordered by Mazda.

If you need any part numbers, please drop me a short MSG. I've got a part catalog from Japan and can find all part numbers you need. My experience is, you can order all parts directly from Mazda dialership.

REgards
Iwan

[spanner]

G'day Glenn,

I believe the plugs are 6's on the leading & 9's on the trailing, at least that's what mine came with originally.

[DRFTRX_82]

What year is that my friend?

[spanner]

Originally posted by DRFTRX_82
What year is that my friend?

My JC Cosmo is a 1990 JC3SE , came with the 13B-RE option, and I bought a front cut of a JCESE with 20B on board and did the swap.

[DRFTRX_82]

i haven't really done much looking for the elusive 20b motor, i saw one on ebay for 1500$ US with tranny. I was thinking of doing a swap into my 1st gen rx7. some people here (Canada) want to sell rebuilt motors for upwards of 4000$ . I'm still debating weather or not to do it.
P.S how much bhp do those put out?

[scooby_si]

(Si bites tongue & resists tranny smilies <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_2_102.gif' border=0></a>)
Seriously thou say the word if you see a 20B going for $1500 i think many here would go for that?
I thought they were quite rare from a cosmo?
Si

[Ultraman_Cosmo]

Thanks for all that Iwan, the air conditioning does not work as you say but may just need a re-gas. The transmission problem seems to have dissappeared for the time being, time will tell if this is temporary or not! Do the TV displays normally pack up completely? As our one just has a thin blue line through the middle and I wondered if that was some glimmer of hope? I have just posted in the insuring your rotary thread as I'm having a nightmare insuring it, if anyone could post some advice either here or in the other topic I'd muchh appreciate it.
Thanks,
Phil.

[Tim_Burgess]

I've got my 13b insured through AON. They had the usual misconception that it was a Eunos Roadster but we soon cleared that up.

£ 253.00 on a 5k Miles per year Modern Classic Policy

REgards