FC and FD owners?

[20B_boy]

Evening all!

As a few will know I bought Jasons old FC last week. Its a high miler thats a bit tired to be fair but I knew that beforehand and have to say I've already grown quite fond of it :)

Owning a 96 FD and having driven quite a few FD's over the last year in particular the FC is a totally different animal, although I can certainly see how the FD evolved.

So, I was wondering, does any one else own an FD and an FC coupe atm? or done so recently? How do you think they 'compare'? I know mine is as already mentioned a fairly tired example - its done 145K miles+ and the suspension certainly feels like it - but I wondered what a tight low miler felt like in comparison? It feels a very heavy car but pulls ok in spite of having about 100K miles on the current motor. I dont like to use the word comparison as they seem to be different cars altogether but does any one have any any way?

I'm trying to gauge what to do/replace first/at all I guess...!

Cheers all :)

[hotstepper1973]

Not that i am very clued up but here is my opinion i had the fc t2 was very good for me one because it was alot more reasonable to tweak ie: i had the car de-cat cool ligitimately then i had a fuel cut defenser and boost controller fitted for about 400 quid for the lot.
This made a considerable difference in the car with regards to torque and bhp but never put it on rolling road to find out exactly what though sorry.
Handling wise i thought it was absolutely amazing something to do with the steering firms up at speed to give better feedback, impressive for a car nearly 15 years old.
After a few months of getting used to the increased power i then took it on a trackday at donington which really then impressed me because i thought with the other cars that were on there like elises and the like i thought i did really as i am a total novice on trackdays.Whilst i was there i met up with a member of mrc who was in a 3rd gen who said that he wasn't experiencing no brake fade with his set-up so that along with other members telling how much different the 3rd gen was i then purchased one.
So then i had to learn to drive again as this 3rd gen is something else, the 3rd gen is tighter quicker and everything else ie before purchasing it i was able to take it for test drive, so with the owner sat beside me hit approximately 90 mph let go of the steering wheel and stood on the brakes the owner was then propelled forward in a big way cool but the car stayed in a perfect straight line SO IMPRESSIVE.
So for me i think the 3rd gen is way better driving car but that is just my opinion ok

[88GT-R]

Hi,
First point, the 3rd Gen is my dream car and i own an FC. Not that i can´t afford one, just the fact that i intend to fight the underdogs corner and want to build an FC that can hold its own when compared to tuned FD. The FD is a tighter car overall, and has more tuning and styling goodies than does the FC. The FD looks better than the FC, but they are of different eras. Working on the FC is far easier and less complicated.
With a bit of work, i reckon pound for pound, The FC makes a more rewarding drive.

John
88 GT-R

[20B_boy]

I was hoping you'd answer Jon, as you appear fairly die-hard FC :)

I know the FD has a head start in that its late eighties/early nineties tech as opposed to early eighties. I think it was Carl I remember hear saying that he thought the FC was the worst looking car that Mazda made (sorry if I'm mis-quoting Carl, I'm 99% it was u who said it while I was looking at your RX3 a while back). Personally I like the 80's wedges, and at the moment I'm a bit bored of looking at the FD - which it why I bought an FC - and the fact that I needed a beater.

I'd like to know just how inferior the FC is in stock form, as mine is tired to the extent that I dont have any thing like a fair car to compare...I'd like to 'do stuff' to it but I'm not gonna bother if its still gonna be a crate at the end of the day!

My first thoughts when driving the hard was of how heavy it felt. Are there normal paths of weight reduction? what can you realistically get the weight down to without bare metal I wonder...?

I really should leave it be but I'd quite like to make it a bit faster and more dynamic! Probably best to replace all mazdas worn bits and go from there I guess...

Rich

PS beautiful car u have btw Jon!

[sadgoth]

So Rich, you have started playing the generation game too I'm still after the FD then I'll have one of each!

hmmm weight reduction!

That was my first step, find yourself someone who is breaking a convertible and nab the bonnett as they are aluminium less than half the weight of the standard lead (sorry steel one). I've taken all the carpets, rear seats, boot lining and sound deadening out, seems a lot lighter, no idea how much weight has been saved but car feels (well felt until I threw a rotor tip!) more responsive, back end is a little more twitchy with less weight over it. I have the same problem with the suspension being tired, I'm having Tim at RX Motors do a rebuild & port job + replace the bushes de-cat downpipe and probably go for a microtech ecu. I suspect I'll need to replace shocks and springs too. One very odd thing though, the RX feels far faster the the STi even though I know on paper the STi hits 60 in just under 5 and the RX is about 6.4, so once the car has been fettled it'll be a flying machine. Should be ready for Japfest (Tim & I hope!)

cheers

Mark

[grinder]

cant think of anything to put really , but i need to stand in the FC corner on this one :)

im on my second FC at this moment in time - had an EGI first and then got the TII

and IMO the EGI is still a better car - the fact that you could throw it into a corner at 90 and come out the other side impressed me no end

now yeah ok the TII is quick - there is no doubt about it - but mine is letting me down on the handling - so i cant really have a fair comparison :(

the 3rd gens are nice cars - there is no two ways about it

i love the 2nd gen - its the styling that i like - its that square cut wedge shape of them - very 80's - but thats why i like it - tooo many 3rd gens on the road now ( and 8's ) - i like my FC because there arent many around now - and people are never too sure what it is

there is a massive debate about whats best the FC or FD - but they are two DIFFERENT cars - end of story - the dont share many of the same parts ( ok maybe engines !! ) - they are built around a different concept in different era's

i think thats the problem with most RX7 owners - they all say that they love there car to bits - get a new one - and suddenly they love that one even more - it would be nice to see a FD owner who prefers the FC !!!

i go with what 88 says - pound for pound the FC is more rewarding - although cost has a lot to do with my argument - mine cost about 5 times less than the average FD , and that plays a major part in my book

its the famous statement - what would you do with 10K - i would buy and FC and do that up - from speaking to various people they reckon on 600 - 800 BHP for about 5K , that 5K would only get you a 3rd gen and no tweaky bits ( dont quote on figures - im telling the story !! )

but at the end of the day , i always say that its not down to the car - its who's driving it :) :)

i usually find that the people who are all talk can only drive the thing in a straight line anyways

Stu

/gets off soap box now and lets some one else have a go ! /

[samfc3s]

I had driven both and owned both, the FC is a lot easier to live with, and still draws a lot of attention, i had owned a FC then FD and FC again....i had to admit FD looks better than FC but i just prefer the look of FC..the older classis shape, but my old mazdaspeed FD do look very sharp too...hahah:D

FD is a lot tighter on corner, may b my fc shocks is a bit tiring :rolleyes: goin to get some JIC coilver when i have some money left.........any


FC is BETTER...hahaha....for me.......


sam

[88GT-R]

Okay,:D
Stu, i like your points and there is much truth behind them. Its seems to me that the FC is a more robust car overall, and mabe that contributes to its weight. BUT, the average FD is heavier and this goes to show how well it performs dynamacly(sic). The brakes are ALOT better on the FD, and the FC´s handling is more sure footed(in std trim). Enough of comparrisons, as i am sure this could get long winded.
Depends how far you want to go on weight reduction. I estimate i lost about 40kilos, or more when i ditched the interior, power steering, airpump and other uneeded stuff from the engine. The steering is alot more direct, although abit more twitching at the backend.
I hope this helps,

John
88 GT-R

[Gman]

This has made interesting reading - I am looking into selling the FD an buying a heavily modded FC from Japan just waiting for a couple of specs so I can make an educated decison.

[grinder]

just keep both of them gman - you know you wanna !!

[Gman]

Your right i do but with my cash flow it aint gonna happen. Gonna have to sell my body again.....do i hear 27p?:rollin

[grinder]

27p - blimey i only got 9 pence the last time i tried :(

[scooby_si]

yeah but that was kuz u said you got too much job satisfaction :eek: lol
Si

[88GT-R]

Originally posted by Gman
This has made interesting reading - I am looking into selling the FD an buying a heavily modded FC from Japan just waiting for a couple of specs so I can make an educated decison.

Modded FC´s from the rising sun....could you ask for more??:) I would hope that this info has helped in making the educated decision. Put it this way, you will most probably have a more unique car, and raise the game a level or 5.

John
88 GT-R

[Grizzly]

Rich, i have had a 100k Fc and the diffrence between my 40k and 100k car is quite dramatic.

I fitted a set of Polly Bushings and a set of Toe Elim Bushings which made the car handle well i then fitted a set of Billys and droped it 1" (you need Pillow mounts and rear camber ajust bar) and it handles realy well.

You can make a Fc brakes as good as the Fd by fitting an FD Brake servo essembly and a set of Hawk pads. You will defo need to put some quality fluid in it and check all the pistons move freely.

chris

[simingma]

I love my FC, i always want build a FC which is modded as my own style, that will probably cost 10k... do u guys think it is worth to do that? some mates just suggest me i should sell it in 2 years or sooner and get another car, cause the FC is too old...but in my opinion, i wanna keep it, spend my time with her and keep working on it, FC is a very very special car to me, it is always worth to do if you really like the stuff..

Mark

[grinder]

if you have the cash - then spend what you like !

if you get a 400 BHP FC then thats a very rare car - most people seem to be getting FD imported with loads of BHP

i say keep the FC and "supe her up"

but each to their own really - the choice is yours

[Peter Ball]

I've never driven a FD3S so this isn't really a 'comparison'. However, the difference between my FC3S Cabriolet (which had 50,000 miles when bought and about 78,000 miles by the time I had got most of my modifications done) was night and day - accepting that the Cabriolet is 'softer' handling than the Coupe as stock.

It now handles brilliantly (apart from - to my reckoning -still overassisted power steering - anyone know anybody who could rebuild the pump to give lower boost ?) and goes. I tested a TVR Chimaera 400 recently (my next car ?) and the seat-of-the-pants acceleration wasn't that much more impressive than my car with the turbo wound up (I expect the Chimaera 500 to be a different story - I'll let you know sometime !).

Much as I like the shape of the FD3S, I was only ever interested in an open car (I understand the reasons why Mazda never considered this, i.e. weight and the MX5/Miata) but personally I would have loved it if they had made an open FD3S - and would probably buy one.

On the minus side, the FC3S has a somewhat dated 80's shape versus the FD3S (which still looks amazing IMHO). On the plus side, the FC3S looks different and unusual. Personally, I think the biggest minus is that most of the experts out there seem to hold the FC3S in low esteem and don't seem to want to do more than standard servicing on them. For this reason, I am rapidly becoming disillusioned with mine (can't get the work done that I'd like done) and thinking of getting shot of it and buying a Chimaera 500, as I don't have the time or inclination to work on the car myself.

Peter


‘Turboported’ 13B engine

Baffled sump/uprated oil pressure regulator

Bigger radiator (K2RD) with electric fan

3” downpipe and presilencer with 3” into 2 x 2.5” ‘Y’ pipe and tail pipes/silencers

Hybrid Garrett TO4 compressor/OEM Hitachi turbine

BIG Greddy FMIC

Denso 550 cc/min primaries with Bosch 1600 cc/min secondaries (latter far too big, as I have found out !)

Walboro uprated fuel pump

Microtech MT8 ECU (nice product – would have been even nicer if they’d bothered to make it so that it could run the RX-7 metering oil pump)

Greddy front strut tower brace/Cusco rear strut tower brace

Tokiko ‘Illumina’ top adjustable struts/Eibach ‘Pro-Sport’ lowered, progressive rate springs

Racing Beat uprated anti-roll (sway) bars front and rear with Racing Beat (front)/Mazdatrix (rear) links.

Uprated polyurethane bushes in all suspension arms

RH Alurad six spoke alloys, 8 x 17” with Yokohama A 520’s, 215/45Z17R (soon to be replaced with Toyo F1 Proxes).

[grinder]

we will have no mention of selling a FC to get a TVR - shhhessssh :)

[rotorhead666]

So have any of you guys ever driven a 12a Turbo?If you really want to be exclusive,they are much rarer than 13b's,(maybe 20b's,too?),mine has Tii injectors and a Microtech LT-8,a fun little car that i tried an experiment with the other day;i saw a new porsche thing make out to overtake at 40mph in a 40 zone,coming to an end of restriction.so i floored her,and this porsche was not getting any closer from 40 to 120,until i had to bottle when there was another car in front on the dual carriageway.Left me with a huge grin on my face,and definitely not bad for a 19 year old car!It's not just you 2nd and 3rd genners who can have fun,you know!!!Just ask Tim RX.

[Peter Ball]

If I could find someone more interested in working on my car to my admittedly very high standards (which are NOT, I would stress, also cost-driven) rather than doing the minimum amount of work to a not particularly great (in fact once pretty poor) standard PLUS in one case which shall remain anonymous, charging me a wallet-emptying sum :eek for the 'privilege' then I might be feeling less inclined to sell my car than I do presently.

Anyway, you can all have a jolly good laugh at me over on 'Pistonheads' if I do go ahead and sell the Little White Horror (printable version of what I call it) defect to pistons and buy a TVR Chim or Griff 5L jobby that then promptly falls to bits at even more horrendous cost than the Japanese Jellymould. :)

Best wishes

Pete

[88GT-R]

If you need a hand, give me a shout.

John
88 GT-R

[eddicla]

Had a quite good FC when I bought my FD about 3 yrs ago. Couldn't give the FC away, which is what I would call selling for less than £500, so It had been parked up since with the occasional start and drive up and down the access road behind the house.

Two speeding fines later and the need to sort out scrapes on alloys and numerous parking dinks on the FD, I have spent some time getting the old FC back on the road. It was satisfying to see how the car reponded to basic sevicing of the brakes, cooling system and some minor body work.

I'd forgotten how the egi engine buzzes up to the beep so smoothly and the handling is so surefooted and predictable. The pedals are better placed for heel and toeing than the FD, which I love doing more often to stay in the power band. The egi is easier to live with i.e. much lighter steering, smoother power delivery, cruise control and sunroof. I am more obsessed with getting it even better after every drive. New speakers in the back mean that I am also rediscovering all the music I have on casset tapes that never gets played because of CD's. Classic car insurance of £340 fully comp also takes some of the strain of owning two cars.

With around 20K on the rebuilt engine prior to my buying the FD and a limitless supply of cassett,s I am not missing my FD and can take my time to get it looking really good. In the meantime I am enjoying my egi retro rotary rocket immensly.

[dazcol]

How Do Dude

I am the proud owner of a RX7 Twin turbo Efini on a J plate and i don't know the engine type Is it an RS or RB and hw do i tell the differance and what is the differance?

The next Question is obvious Were can i get HKS performance parts @ good prices.

What is Good and what is not ?:cool

What is the differance between FD & FC please put my mind at rest

Cheers DAZER

[grinder]

the FD is the curvy one - from 1993 on wards

the FC is the old squarish one ( like a porcshe 924 & 944 ) - this ran from about 86 to 92

the FB is a first gen - errr not sure of the years

and the rx8 is an FE ( if i remember correctly )

best places for stuff for you is af WGT in northwich - top bloke Pip :)

and if you are based in manchester you can come to the north west meets :)

[sadgoth]

the engine type will be a 13b REW as that is the block for all of the FD3S (3rd generation) cars

type R, RS, RB, etc is related to the model not specifically the engine.

[brooksie]

sorry to drag up an old thread .. tis just that im currently selling my FD and going over to an FC ...

building a Drift spec nutter jobby ;) :D

very interesting reading tho :) ... thanks !!

Steve

[t2rew]

well as you've got it back up ill put my 2p in.

i did go the root of spending a fortune ( more than a nice modded import fd ) and im well impressed with my old bucket.

just done the mazdaspeed nylon bushes and they make a big diferance to the feeling of the car. gone from jelly on wheels to f1 spec:D
that is with very tired rear shocks.

it is now very fast and give's me a big grin when i wind it up.

i have never driven a fd but i have had a few modded but not nesacerily fast cars. the fastest thing i have driven was a 450bhp 996 porsche, that was very very good but do you know what. i recon i could beet it in the fc and have more driver involvment at the same time. ie MORE FUN

im still not even at the boost i want to run. want 14psi. running 6psi

what is good about the fc is the look on the guys face in his 90000 pound car as my 500 quid banger leaves him in a wake of petrol vapor :rollin :rollin

[jetpilot]

Grinder dude.

Please please tell me where i can spend £5k for 600 - 800 bhp on my FC, pretty please.:rollin

I have gone from FD to FC, mainly due to fact of cost as mentioned in previous posts, also becuase i feel the FD is getting to popular, when i first started looking for an FD, just over a year ago there was like 1 maybe 2 on ebay and maybe 5 in autotrader, now we have loads around.

The driving of both is very different but i think a well sorted FC, will be a match for an FD, the FC does feel bulkier and not as nimble but still think the handing is good on an FC.

Performance wise, well similar engine so tunning the same as FD.

[grinder]

yeah looking back on this thread - maybe i was a bit out with my figures :)

im sure 5K could get you a very fast car though

speak to 88GTR - his is very nice - and i reckon that you could do that for under 5K ( unless you need a rebuild in the price ! )

[sadgoth]

not sure if you could get a spec like 88GTR's for less than £5k, if memory serves he is running:
T88 turbo
V-Mount IC (yes I know he fabricated it himself, but if you or I were to do it it would need to be bought)
Microtech LT8
Microtech Dash Unit
combination of S4 & S5 bits
and a few other bits and pieces!

bearing in mind the T88 would require an external wastegate, custom manifold and hardpiping to IC the V-Mount IC would set u back a pretty penny (RE-Amemiya £1800 + shipping & VAT :eek: ) + fitting of the above I reckon unless you were to do the fitting yourself and you managed to find a cheap IC that would come in over £5k. Also to get serious power from the engine it really needs porting.

[grinder]

REALLY - and heres me thinking 5K would get you some nice power out put ??

oh well eh - maybe not

[sadgoth]

depends on what u mean by nice! :D £5k would defo get you a decent amount of power, but big power needs so many thing:
ECU
Exhaust
big FMIC / V-mount
uprated Turbo
porting
clutch
bigger injectors + pump

and that list if you add fitting costs comes to more than £5k
although you can save on IC if you go for un unbranded one, save on turbo if you buy turbo on its own rather than in kit form and ECU if you decide to fit it yourself!

[grinder]

hummm yeah i see what you mean matey ...

i think i will just leave mine to rust away on the drive :( - not spending over 5k to get decent power

easier to buy and FD and apexi - that should see you over 300BHP and not too much hassle :(

[88GT-R]

Hi,

I have been pretty fortunate with what bits i have run into, but the main point is this... if you have all the bits needed for big power, you will need alot of time to get it all setup to give you the right performance. I have been tuning mine near enough everytime i drive it, for the last 2 years. Still not good enough.

5g's will get you a good base:
ECU
pump
Pair of injectors
Ported block using S4 and S6 componants.
T04E Hybrid(Possibly)

Then start saving and looking for a 2nd hand turbo kit including wastegate, downpipe etc.
...plus a bit of chassis work:D

Stu....FD...Apexi...we have had this chat before...

John
88 GT-R

[grinder]

"Stu....FD...Apexi...we have had this chat before..."

have we ???

probably matey - i think i have spoken to all the peeps about all subjects - can never think who i have spoken to about what !!

[jetpilot]

I will agree with Sadgoth as i have found out to my dissmay.
It would seem turbo, ecu, injectors etc is not enough, you really need that porting work to release good figures.

[sadgoth]

QUOTE]It would seem turbo, ecu, injectors etc is not enough, you really need that porting work to release good figures.[/QUOTE]

Although that is true, with all the work you have done so far (have you got the FMIC on yet btw) when you do decide to have the engine rebuilt and ported you should have an absolute beast of a car, whereas I'm going the other way, my mods need to grow into the engine so to speak! Tim was telling me yesterday I need to get an HKS T51 KAI to really get the best out of my engine :eek:

[jetpilot]

Front mount not on yet, soon i hope. But i have had the exhaust changed from twin exit to single 3" from turbo back, which seems to have helped. Just need the IC and then tunning again.

[Peter Ball]

Hi, Guys,

Nope, haven't sold the FC - yet (see post above) - partly because the deal that I thought I had to trade it in for something unmentionable :D fell through.

I never got the dyno print-out for my car (along with various other things that I didn't get, like not getting certain items that were removed to carry out the mods refitted) but I'm guessing around 320 BHP based on my G-tech thingy. What I can say is that the car is a hoot to drive and gives a lot of higher-powered machinary something to think about :D.

The only mods that I regret on my list are the Microtech ECU (who the hell develops an ECU set up to run a rotary engine then omits to provide a driver for the stepper motor in the MOP :reallymad ) and the Bosch 1600 cc/min secondaries which (probably because of the step-up from the 550 cc/min primaries) gives a slight hesitation at around 3,000 rpm. I am thinking about going over to an Apexi Power FC ECU (yes, you can run then on a FC3S, with an intermediate connector plug) and different injectors (a) so I can get my MOP working and (b) to try and reduce the secondary injector transition.

Oh and by the way, my mods including labour cost somewhere around £ 7,000 about 2 years ago :eek

Best wishes

Peter

[88GT-R]

Originally posted by sadgoth
QUOTE]It would seem turbo, ecu, injectors etc is not enough, you really need that porting work to release good figures.

Although that is true, with all the work you have done so far (have you got the FMIC on yet btw) when you do decide to have the engine rebuilt and ported you should have an absolute beast of a car, whereas I'm going the other way, my mods need to grow into the engine so to speak! Tim was telling me yesterday I need to get an HKS T51 KAI to really get the best out of my engine :eek: [/QUOTE]

No, you need to get that pesky ecu sorted, then we can talk fancy snails and the like. RS05 is creeping up on us, and you're gonna have a chunk missing from your ass;)

[sadgoth]

microtech is going to be ordered later this week, incidentally, have you sorted your man out for the microtech for his FD?

[88GT-R]

Mark,
I will be flying over on Saturday, as i mentioned before and will give you a shout then. My man is still humping around getting your dollar. Hopefully not too long now.

John

[brooksie]

chaps .. anybody got any links etc for wheel offsets and the like for FC's ..

have been looking at some MS02's BUT the place thats selling is saying they're for FD's only ? .. im assuming this is an offset issue rather than a fitment issue as such

apologies .. im not a newbie to rotaries .. just a newbie to FC's :D

[88GT-R]

Hi,
There are a couple of links on www.rx7club.com Go to the 2nd Gen forum, and do a search. Loads of crap to siv through.
Sorry, but i don't remember the exact sites.

John