Dyno sheets and discussion for UK Rotaries!

[Glenn Butcher]

This thread is for posting your Dyno sheets and for friendly discussion, banter and rip-taking of your dyno results.

Results are here (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23396).

Remember: it's all pub-talk!

[g11ary]

on behalf of john yorke

I am the very proud owner of a standard seqential turbo with proven 385 FWBHP or 316RWHP, and it is all down to Carl Haywood building a superb extended street ported engine and mapped/tuned by Geff @ Reworx.
For you guys wanting the nitty -gritty, we spent this morning on CPL Racing's Dyno Dynamics rolling road [01795 668778] completing the top end mapping having completed 7 power runs we ended with 315.7RWHP and 255 ft. lbs @ 5500. The engine produced 280 RWHP @ 5500 peaked @7200 and maintained 310 to 8200, boost was set @ 14psi to 6k where it dropped to 13 through to 8200 water temp was a constant 85c throughout with inlet temp @ 26c AF was 10.5 /11.

[g11ary]

on behalf of ant

Went to Abbey Motorsport yesterday morning with the new FD, for those of you who dont know it is a Panspeed tuned type R with a T04S large single turbo, not to mention many other mods including a Panspeed mapped ECU. Getting to the point, I am really pleased with the results, the cars is clearly setup to run 1.0bar boost which I guess means it must have uprated injectors/fuel pump which was a bit of unknown. As usual it was running MEGA rich at idle, and AFR was good at full bore and has all the characteristics of good Japanese mapping (no part throttle work then!, makes it a bit of a jerky b*stard in traffic until you get used to it. Anyway here are the results.

355.3bhp @ 6881rpm - at the rear hubs, this equates to about 400bhp at the flywheel.

275.8 ft/lbs torque @ 6246rpm - again at the hubs, flywheel figure likely to be abot 305ft/lbs torque.

[Glenn Butcher]

Ta Gary - updated.

[A7NTY]

Hi Glen,

som extra detail for my car:

Owned by; Sterte Garage - AJ Fleming
Engine built by: ? suspect Panspeed
Car tuned by: Panspeed Japan.

Cheers, Ant.

[jay]

Nice too see you got your new FD Ant.....Fancy a swap? I see you are sellin it. I thought you might keep this one.Did you get rid of Glenn's monster?
Cheers jay...:wave

[Gman]

Why has Blitzboy got such a low BHP figure? I'm probably being thick but i thought all FD's were about 250 + as standard?

[J4P RX]

Thats probably a wheels figure :)

Cheers
Lee

[Gman]

Ahh me being thick then! ;)

[20B_boy]

A stock 99-spec FD seems to go between 210-220 atw from what we've seen to date on dynos i.e. about 265atf for the most part...

[Carl]

Tim has got 256rwhp at 7200 rpm At CPL racing.
12a gt 35/40 turbo.
kind regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Not bad considering Tim's 'interesting' installation! I think it was leaking boost all the time too? Should be interesting with boost control and little less air leaking...oh, and considering the intake temps seen perhaps an intercooler would be nice :) "Never" I think Tim said at the time! May be a bit of W.I. in the future...

Geff reckoned it felt as fast as the red car was on the road on the way back home, I guess 256atw with about 950kg? is pretty good power/weight.

[Gman]

Mapping Session at CPL Racing on 22/2/04

FD RX7 13b Twin Turbo
De-Cat Exhaust
HKS Induction kit
Apexi Power FC

235.0 HP at the wheels

[bnaellis]

I would expect that to be approx 290 bhp at the flywheel mate.
Sounds nice and health figures for .8 bar with the mods you have.

rgds

[Gman]

Whats the calculation again?

[bnaellis]

Formula for calculating Flywheel Horsepower:

Drivetrain loss on an FD RX-7 is about 18%. Therefore take 18 from 100, and you get 82. Then take the rear wheel horsepower figure and divide it by 0.82.

e.g. 217rwhp / 0.82 = 265fwhp


RGDS

[Gman]

Ah 286.5 HP at the flywheel then.

[J4P RX]

OK I went today and got them to print my graph from record. Run was done on 21/7/03 @ CPL Dyno Dynamics.

274 @ Wheels

HKS Air Filters
Knightsports ECU
Racing Beat Exhaust
HKS Hard Pipe Kit

Cheers
Lee

[Gman]

Thats pretty s**t hot Lee, well done.

[J4P RX]

Yeah, for whats on the car its very good but I knew this as it does shift. Thing is I have now seen the graph, and its not particularly good.

I have a dip where the 2nd turbo comes on, and then between 5000 rpm and 5500 rpm I go from 170 ATW to 255 ATW which seems pretty steepfor 500rpm. This may explain why in the wet I can just light it up in 3rd on the 2nd turbo. I suppose this is a good thing though, better to have the power there.

Trouble is right after my power actually drops by about 10, before gradually rising up to the 274 ATW then tailing off after about 6500. Now Im just wonder what it would be like if the end of my power graph was smooth and not the mess it looks on paper. Should be a fair bit to come. I think ill leave it pretty much as is though. No point in getting a Power FC for the small gain if any and I dont like them.

Cheers
Lee

[iaint]

I wonder if there's any chance that the weird look of the graph is wheel-slip related? I assume it was on rollers?

Iain

[bnaellis]

Hi Lee,

What boost was that dyno'd at ?? I guess numbers are high for the mods mainly to do with the fact when it was dyno'd it had a freshly built engine ?

rgds

[J4P RX]

Pretty sure its not wheelspin Iain. Dyno Dynamics have a good repuatiton for not having problems with it. You really can feel the 2nd turbo kick in so I believe the graph.

Brian, I guess it may well be because that was dynoed on a new engine. It is running 1bar boost though. Pretty high. Im doing a dyno day in Crawley next month (just power run) so it will be interesting to see how it compares.

Cheers
Lee

[bnaellis]

What company is this with and what day I may be free so will pop down and maybe contcat then to stick something on the dyno myself.

rgds

[J4P RX]

Brian,

The day next month I am doing is at Austec Racing in Crawley.

http://www.austec.co.uk/

Its basically just a club dyno day with the SXOC, ut as I live there it would have been rude not to go!

Places are full, however I asked for two spaces - one for me and one for my mate Ben with his FD. He will have an Apexi fitted and mapped by then though as he needs it to sort the car, so chances are he wont be bothered about the power run as he would get a figure from mapping the Apexi.

Ill ask him if he still wants this space bearing in mind the above. Its MArch the 20th, and its £35. Its only the normal club day power runs though, and not mapping etc.

Cheers
Lee

[bnaellis]

bugger i'm away that day.
There close to my premises though so I suspect I'll be popping by sometime soon.

rgds

[Robertio]

I guess I'll just put the best for each venue:

Robbie Calder
Carl Hayward
Max / Me
282fly 214rwhp 242lb/ft
Star Performance - MAHA
16 Nov 2003

Robbie Calder
Carl Hayward
Max/Me
312fly 260rwhp 254lb/ft (actual figs higher, these from 500rpm increment)
Dastek Dynometer
17 Jan 2004

[jay]

21.2.2004
CPL Racing
241 rwhp
runnin 0.8 bar and mapped by Geff@Reworx...

Standard engine 32000 miles
Blitz front mount
HKS filters
de-cat
Apexi Exhaust
Sard Bov
Apexi Power FC


Cheers Jay...:wave

[J4P RX]

Just bumping this so someone updates the table.

Cheers
Lee

[Gman]

Who can update the table?

[John Yorke]

Rollin road junkie here:D

Went down to Abbey Motorsport today for a comparison and ended up with 346.5HP @ hubs that equates to 395@FW Flywheel torque 291.2.

Very impressed with their setup highly recommended for your tuning.
See Thread on board elsewhere
Regards
John

link here. http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4821
Gary
nice one yellow fella:D

[maximtaylor]

Very interesting John, so you reckon about 10% difference between Dyno dynamics rollers and the hub type at Abbey?

Might see you at Godstone later :)

Regards

Max

[gsb876]

Hello there chaps,

had a dyno read at Thor Engineering on the hub version where your wheels are off, supposed to be very accurate.

The result was 341bhp running at 0.75psi on low boost!!!
251 torque

Which for all concerned means if the car was run at 1.1bar we would make 450bhp people!!!

The next dyno day this will be proven, i did not run to full potential/boost as currently have a coolant leak somewhere and didn't want to over do it.

Funny thing was a R34 GTT apparently 400+bhp ran 342bhp at 1.3bar!!!:rollin :rollin :rollin

[scooby_si]

phew thought i'd ballsed that up for a minute but moved your post from 1/4 mile thread to this one Gurj <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_15_3.gif' border=0></a>
Si

[iaint]

Dyno results for my '92 Twin Turbo:

G-Force's dyno dynamics road.

241.3 RWHP @ 6400RPM

Not tuned yet. WGT street-ported engine with cat-back.

Apexi next week, de-cat next month and tuning... should be fun :D

Iain

[GaryS]

Here's for my twin turbo, now tuned.
Dyno at CPL
279.5 rwBHP @~6700 rpm

HKS quiet cat back (not sure which one)
Apexi GT intercooler/induction
Apexi GT radiator
Apexi PFC & Communicator
Bosch 404 fuel pump
1200 cc secondary injectors
Blitz boost controller

[maximtaylor]

Today's results for mine at G-Force:

359.5 rwhp @ 7000 rpm
438 fwhp

Peak torque @ 5800 rpm

Boost pressure 0.9 bar.

Regards

Max

[Carl]

That's really good power Max,Things are hotting up for rotorstock!!
You should be seriously quick up the 1/4 now.
Considering that Clive had 355 at the hubs on the dyno hub at Abbey, you have currently got a lot more power than he had when he did the 12.2 1/4 mile, and with your wheels and Drag tyres you should be able to easily do a serious 11 second time up the strip if not a 10 with your caz diff.
What gear did you do your run on the rollers in?
Tim may be going up a week on sunday,maybe you could go too?
Kind regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

'Sideways' Steve Cleary today at CPL on the DD's rollers:

330.3 rwhp @ 7000 rpm

Motor and GT35 (not 35/40) by Tim (stock ports, but with an -RE centre plate from recollection)
Intercooler and lots of other stuff fitted by Steve
Tuned by Geff

Smoothest single I've driven, shame the car is a sack of poo atm due to lots of dead bushes :D

Steve actually came down today, what a lovely guy - great to see ya baby! :)

[maximtaylor]

Cheers Carl :)

Well, the car appears quick, but is the driver up to the pressure - I guess that we'll soon find out!

Looks like Rotorstock will be major fun - with lots of cars now producing the goods :)

Rough spec of the car is as follows, probably missed a few bits!

Ported & polished, 2mm 2 pc Mazda seals, Garrett GT35/40 turbo, Apexi Power FC, datalogit, commander, SX fuel pressure regulator, 1300cc secondary injectors, electric water pump, Apexi GT front mount intercooler, air pump thrown in nearest bin, cat thrown in next bin, Greddy boost controller, NGK 10.5 racing plugs, magnecor plug leads, HKS twin power ignition amplifier, solid engine mounts, solid diff mounts, Kaaz 1.5 way LSD, Ceramic single plate clutch, Racing Beat springs, sway bars, Koni adjustable dampers, Porsche 993 turbo calipers and disks, Volk racing GT-7 18 inch alloys, Dunlop D01J r compound tyres, Feed rear box, Motec PLM lambda meter, Denso supra fuel pump, Bride bucket seat, Cusco carbon front strut brace, etc.

I vowed earlier today (with rotary witnesses) that I am now calling it quits in the pursuit of more power, so no more boost, enjoy the car as it is, it seems to like it's current state of tune. Any more work I do now will be purely reliability & tidying mods.

I shall take a peek at diary to see if I can go, should be a good giggle with Tim there to liven up proceedings!!

Regards

Max

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by maximtaylor
Cheers Carl :)

Well, the car appears quick, but is the driver up to the pressure - I guess that we'll soon find out!

Looks like Rotorstock will be major fun - with lots of cars now producing the goods :)

Rough spec of the car is as follows, probably missed a few bits!

Ported & polished, 2mm 2 pc Mazda seals, Garrett GT35/40 turbo, Apexi Power FC, datalogit, commander, SX fuel pressure regulator, 1300cc secondary injectors, electric water pump, Apexi GT front mount intercooler, air pump thrown in nearest bin, cat thrown in next bin, Greddy boost controller, NGK 10.5 racing plugs, magnecor plug leads, HKS twin power ignition amplifier, solid engine mounts, solid diff mounts, Kaaz 1.5 way LSD, Ceramic single plate clutch, Racing Beat springs, sway bars, Koni adjustable dampers, Porsche 993 turbo calipers and disks, Volk racing GT-7 18 inch alloys, Dunlop D01J r compound tyres, Feed rear box, Motec PLM lambda meter, Denso supra fuel pump, Bride bucket seat, Cusco carbon front strut brace, etc.

I vowed earlier today (with rotary witnesses) that I am now calling it quits in the pursuit of more power, so no more boost, enjoy the car as it is, it seems to like it's current state of tune. Any more work I do now will be purely reliability & tidying mods.

I shall take a peek at diary to see if I can go, should be a good giggle with Tim there to liven up proceedings!!

Regards

Max
Yeah, but what colour is it? :D

How long have we been saying that silver is the quickets colour? :rollin

[maximtaylor]

Preach!

[RE:Worx]

steve's car is more scary than a scary thing when it's wet, He's gonna be chasing you Max:)

Geff

[antnicuk]

Max,
Great results! Who tuned her for you? I see you are running 10.5 plugs, do you find they foul in traffic/slow driving? or did you not notice any difference?


With figures like that you should eat M3's, chew them up and spit them out again!
regards
tony

[clive]

Well done Max and all involved in your great result:)

RotorStock has just looked even a little better, seeing as your car should now be able to mix it in with the very best the Jap community has to offer:cool :cool

[iaint]

Originally posted by antnicuk
Max,
Great results! Who tuned her for you? I see you are running 10.5 plugs, do you find they foul in traffic/slow driving? or did you not notice any difference?


With figures like that you should eat M3's, chew them up and spit them out again!
regards
tony

Not sure that Max does any slow driving. From what he was saying about the recent trip round the ring it eats not just M3s but big porkers and ferarris. Sweet!

Iain

[John Yorke]

Great results Max / Sideways Steve:bandit

Out of interest what were your inlet temps and Max were you running your water injection?
I recon with the right launch you could be seeing high 10's...........Now that would liven things up for Rotorstock, me thinks I will be hiding behind me bar-b-que:cool safer to burn the sausages than rubber :rollin :rollin :rollin

[maximtaylor]

mmmm.....inlet temps were getting a bit of a concern, I peaked at 28 celsius, oil temp 70, water temp 85 :cool

Water injection is not plumbed in fully yet (one of those jobs I keep meaning to finish).

Car is running one of my own maps at present, seems to like it as well. If it can stand 4 days of serious abuse, like it did at Nurburgring, then that's good enough for me!

Tony, I have no problems whatsoever with the 10.5 plugs :)

Geff - I always new Steve wasn't going sideways on purpose ;) it's just his heavy right foot :) When it rains, my heart pounds, Steve looks forward to it:)

Nice to know Steve's car is finally producing the goods, he must be a chuffed little bunny ;)

Max

[g11ary]

Steve seems to have problems in the rain, last time I meet steve for a drink, he was driving at 90 backwards on the m25 :rollin

[Glenn Butcher]

Hi all,

I will update the table when I get back to Oz. Nice figures there guys - make sure if you have any other figures to post, reply to this post here so that I can update it all in one go.

[maximtaylor]

Sorry Carl, just noticed I missed a question in your post!

Skippy at G-Force uses 4th gear for the pulls :)

Max

Originally posted by Carl
That's really good power Max,Things are hotting up for rotorstock!!
You should be seriously quick up the 1/4 now.
Considering that Clive had 355 at the hubs on the dyno hub at Abbey, you have currently got a lot more power than he had when he did the 12.2 1/4 mile, and with your wheels and Drag tyres you should be able to easily do a serious 11 second time up the strip if not a 10 with your caz diff.
What gear did you do your run on the rollers in?
Tim may be going up a week on sunday,maybe you could go too?
Kind regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by maximtaylor
Nice to know Steve's car is finally producing the goods, he must be a chuffed little bunny ;)
Yeah, his car was totally different after going on the rollers. I drove it to and from CPL and the difference was very noticeable! Steve was happy - some thing like "**** yeah!" :)

There was a little downward boost 'blip' right where peak power wouldve been (new boost controller not yet fitted), Guy reckoned it would see 340atw had the boost been maintained.

Steve's parting shot when he left last night was some thing along the lines of "what d'ya reckon about 1.2bar then mate?" :rollin

[bnaellis]

Smifta,
Got 326 fwhp 261 rwhp @ .7 bar of boost on Saturday too.

rgds

[antnicuk]

max, you have pm

[g11ary]

If you could see the grin on my face :D
Yesterday my car was taken and re-tuned as it wasn't running properly at Santa Pod with the map supplied.
Carl & Ant have worked there magic and got an extra 70 bhp out of my baby.

Please put me at the top of this list as my car with its itsy bitsy to4e made 365 bhp at abbey, at the hubs, and 298 lbs of torque.

engine built by carl, tuned by carl/ant.

wwwwaaaaahhhhhhhoooooooooooooooo.................. ........

Big thanks to all that helped with this. You know who you are....

[iaint]

Stunning power figures Gary - congrats to you and carl/ant.

On a different note I spoke to Pip @ WGT yesterday about de-catting and mapping my car and mentioned the power figures from the FDUK rr day @ g-force.

His response to their 240 RWHP figure from the car he rebuilt for me last year was "I didn't know I was that good". His opinion is that they're reading some 20-30 HP higher than reality considering the only mod I have is street-porting on the rebuild!

Will be interesting to see what de-cat/mapping do for it!

Iain

[maximtaylor]

Nice one Gary :)

How much boost were you running?

Do you reckon you were close to the flow limits of the T04e??

Regards

Max

[g11ary]

It was mapped to 1.1 bar I believe, I was not there but that is what my high boost setting is set to. Would go higher boost but will need to pull the engine and get Carl to breath some of his magic over it and dowl it.

It must be pretty close to its limits I would have thought. Anyone know what a t04e's optium boost is?

[maximtaylor]

You weren't there? Sorry should have said well done Gary, Carl and Ant!!

I have a similar problem to you Gary, in that I'm going to have to get mine dowelled.

I'm thinking of getting a 2nd engine built to spec. That way, I'll always have a spare should something untoward happen.

Or I could just up the boost and wait for something to give ;)

Nearly forgot, I did say last week that I wouldn't be after any more power :rollin

Max

[g11ary]

No it was Chloe's birthday, so now have 2 blisters from the shopping trip to London.
Should have gone to the rolling road, would have saved me the cost of 2 dowled engines :rollin

[bnaellis]

nice one Gary:D :D
That's some serious power from a to4e
What size turbine housing you got on there ? I thought it was a 0.81 a/r? If so I think it's being pushed to or very near it's limits at 1.1 bar.

rgds

[g11ary]

Yes cant imagine they being much more to come out of her, by the time I start looking at bigger housings I may just go bigger turbo, which I say I wont go down that route as if I get the black car finished then the yellow car wont be a fast drive anymore. Will prob not start changing turbos just improve what I have on there, dowled, ported more, etc.

[Wav]

Great power reading Gary, well done to all that had a hand in achieving such large powers with a small (ish) turbo. Just think what the black beast will pull once it is up and running properly, and yes it will be up and running properly soon, have faith:D

Regards,

Paul:)

[John Yorke]

Great numbers m8:D I make that around 415fwhp and 340atw not bad for a ickle ol' snail:bandit
With the right launch should be v low 12's / high 11's. Nice to see; every cloud has a silver lining:cool :cool

[20B_boy]

For next time you're updating Butch:

Geff/RE:Worx
11.05.04 at CPL on the Dyno Dynamics
431.4hp at the rear wheels, made at 16psi.

Built and tuned from scratch by Geff. Same T04 hybrid as used on the bridgeport if any one recalls i.e. not very big.

Using the John Yorke school of conversion that's APPROX 526fly and 462hubs. Off tut pub now...

[Glenn Butcher]

Hi Rich,

I'll update tomorrow if I get a chance.

So - it looks like it is GAME ON!!!

I have the program, www.quarterjr.com - I have input the details based on the 520hp, look at the projected times!

I put weight at a conservative 3100lbs, 26x8.5 inch tyres, with an FD gearbox.

Check it out...

[20B_boy]

Some hope :)

All good fun tho! :D

[Kevint]

Hi Glenn,

If you are updating the table please include mine. Gains just by exhaust and ECU might be interesting to others starting to mod:

'99 RB-S
253.2 rwhp
CPL Racing 17/4/2004
Tuned by Geff, RE:Worx

Mods:
FEED downpipe
Racing Beat Back Box
Apexi PFC
Blitz Spec S Boost controller

History:
15/2/2003 217.6 rwhp when stock
21/2/2004 215.6 rwhp with pfc & boost controller (dyno not in shoot out mode)

Cheers

Kevin

[John Yorke]

Hay Glen

It might be worthwhile splitting your table to show those that have readings at the hubs to those that have ATW, might clear things up a bit.

[20B_boy]

You should overlay your first g-force boost graph over it Kev!

[Kevint]

Rich,

Here is my impression of a himalayan skyline, G-force 2003

Cheers

Kevin

[20B_boy]

Thats funny :)

[DRAGON]

Good power Rich, whats the full engine spec? How does she feel compared to the bridged version? Will it be at avon on saturday?

[scooby_si]

Are you lot running at Shakespear raceway this weekend then only it says on their site "American car world nationals" so wasn't sure whether it was a RWYB as well or what plan/story was?
Si (/hijack mode off but no-one answered when i asked before <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_200.gif' border=0></a> lol)

[DRAGON]

I plan to bring an FD and a supra down on saturday for some testing. The FD is my back-up car because it doesnt look like mine will be done in time.

[20B_boy]

It's ported un stuff :) Needs a bigger turbo but thats not going to happen.

Have only driven it at .5-.7bar (promised as it wasnt mapped and didnt have boost control - man i was well behaved - had two NSX's and a Carrera RS go by within 15 seconds of each other on the M4! :reallymad) but it felt 'lively' as, should get a go again soon with a bit of luck. It doesnt like no load cruising that much a bit like the bridge. It seemed a lot more lively low down in comparison. The turbo seemed to be making boost pretty easily whereas the bridgeport made it late in the rev range. I guess it generally behaves how you'd expect a big non-bridged engine to behave, kind of some where in the middle :)

Meant to be going to Avon, should be interesting to see how the gaff compares to Pod, eh...

[20B_boy]

Your other FD mate, or another one?

[DRAGON]

My back-up car for rotorstock. Still got to change the box and some other stuff yet.

[Paul-Tll]

Had a trip to C.P.L. today,
made 244 ATW -300 ATF
with stock motor, fmic & De/cat back zaust.
you allways want/need more but Im happy its a good start I think!
Thanks to Geff for mapping PFC,
Tim for rebuild,
Brian for the car.

Paul..

[cpl racing]

Originally posted by gbutcher
Hi Rich,

I'll update tomorrow if I get a chance.

So - it looks like it is GAME ON!!!

I have the program, www.quarterjr.com - I have input the details based on the 520hp, look at the projected times!

I put weight at a conservative 3100lbs, 26x8.5 inch tyres, with an FD gearbox.

Check it out...

Glenn,

I think you are supposed to put the wheel horsepower in, I recon it would be supprisingly close to the 11.48 that was run

[Carl]

Originally posted by cpl racing
Glenn,

I think you are supposed to put the wheel horsepower in, I recon it would be supprisingly close to the 11.48 that was run

Hello and welcome to the club,it is Guy I presume?Nice to see you posting on here.
I heard that you did an 11.48 in Geffs beast,well done for that.
I know you have driven quicker cars but it does go to show how hard it is to do a good time and experience is always a help.

So is Geff now putting on a bigger turbo?
We all want to see a 10 in a rotary soon!

I guess that those Hoosier's must have helped times over the Bridge port engine that ran on the Dunlops?And the charge cooler must have been helpful to the new engine as well.

Anyway,well done Geff,keep it up your nearly there for a 10!Watch out for Tim and Ross though!

Kind regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Welcome Mr Chamberlain :)

Finished that silver FD yet?

PS I like your tag - I think your services may be called upon again shortly as Geff might not be allowed out to play for Jap-thingy this month ;)

[cpl racing]

Ordered bends for silver car yesterday so mild progress, who's car am I going to drive at Jap thingy?

[20B_boy]

I'm taking the red car up I think, but as I'll probably run 13s in it I imagine a decent pilot will be needed :)

[Timrxmotors]

For that event you need street tyres,says they have to be DOT approved,I would not think the Hoosiers are.Only get 3 runs as well.:( I may go anyway.

[MikeLMR]

why DOT approved ... thats an american standard :confused:

E-mark or british standard is more apt for this country ... maybe its because Micky Thompson Street ET's have DOT approval :D

[Timrxmotors]

Then the Hoosiers are OK,they are DOT approved,in America.

[scooby_si]

posted sum of the new "rules" i found being mentioned elsewhere on this MRC thread (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=52850#post52850) for santa pod next weekend....<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_5_5.gif' border=0></a>
Si

[maximtaylor]

Well, it does say "with acceptable levels of tread"

If they're acceptable to you Tim....:rollin

You'll have the D01J's as backup anyways Rich, no not my set though ;)

Max

Originally posted by Timrxmotors
Then the Hoosiers are OK,they are DOT approved,in America.

[20B_boy]

Damn, my clever plot to steal Max's car peice by piece is failing :reallymad

U can kiss good bye to yer PLM tho :D

[PETE SMITH]

My latest offering of 314.2 bhp @ wheel or approx 380/390 @ FW
Taken at 0.9bar and Geff's help!
It's my daily drive...the performance gives a sensation of serious road presence...this doesn't include-air suck-turbo whine-wastegate head-turning sound-effects!
Pete

[PETE SMITH]

Forgot to mention;
Single 35/40 Garrett turbo-currently @0.9bar
DP-Turbosmart
MP-Feed Sonic
Catback-RB single
Wastegate-Turbosmart
Apexi GT FMIC
Apexi commander/Blitz boost control.
Pete:)

[20B_boy]

I presume its a stock motor Pete?

[PETE SMITH]

Yep Rich,
Standard non ported block.
Still pulls like a demon!
Pete:evillaugh

[Archbish]

With tired turbo's (any 99 spec going spare...??), and having not turned on the Neons (a 20% loss, and an oversight on my part. Doh!!!) a happy and delighted 320 fwhp *grin*

I think that must make me the strongest auto with (knackered) stock twins in the UK driven by a spiritual leader!!!

[88GT-R]

Hi,
Spent 3 1/2 hours on the dyno yesterday tuning from 4000-7200.

304rwhp @ 7000rpm
313nm @ 6000rpm

Boost 10-12psi

linear torque curve: 301@5000rpm exh temp: 720°c
313@6000rpm " " 720°c
310@6300rpm " " 720°c
306@6500rpm " " 690°c
309@6700rpm " " 725°c
305@7000rpm " " 712°c

Air inlet temp under load: 21°-28°

Initial run: 283rwhp @ 6700rpm
297nm @ 6700rpm

Setup as per signature.

John
88 GT-R

[20B_boy]

11.08.2004
RE:Worx red car
506.4 at the wheels at 1.4~1.5bar
CPL Dyno Dynamics

Thats what the graph says any way :rolleyes:

[scooby_si]

i say again
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/scooby_si/knel.gif
Well done!!!
Si

[John Yorke]

Go on.................don't be shy put a picture of the graph up pahlease:D

[20B_boy]

Over the weekend mate :)

[20B_boy]

Ok, I was 0.1hp out!

NB dynos may be inaccurate - believe what u want.

[gsb876]

Good stuff there "Hippy" :rollin

Didn't get to dyno the purple one yet, all places were taken this morning @ Thor so will have to wait until next dyno day thingy:(

[antnicuk]

Geffs car must get very interesting at 5000 rpm, theres is about a 350bhp increase in just over a 2000 rpm. Bet thats fun in the wet!

[Sean]

Can I be added to the chart:wave Pretty please:god

Here is my offering:

[Sean]

I suppose you need details too:o

Engine built by;
Standard rebuild by WGT

Tuned by;
Not tuned at all!

Car;
FC3S TurboII

Engine/Turbo;
13b Turbo intercooled (all stock)

Location;
Mikeanics, Congleton

Date;
Yesterday!

Fank you:wave

[88GT-R]

Great figures, Sean...way above stock:D

John
88 GT-R

[Sean]

Something must be broken? I'm not on the table yet;)

[gsb876]

Your powers be weak old man!!!!!:rollin :rollin :rollin

[Sean]

I'm quite pleased with my figure, actually;)

[Sean]

Cheers STU POT:cool

[bnaellis]

Yeah they are done in rwhp although some of them are hub figures as they we're done at Abbey.
Might as well still me up there then 424 rwhp 323 rwt to4r single
done at cpl onn 7th Oct.


rgds

[rmagictastic]

My mistake, i humbly apologise, 312bhp at the f/w, 254bhp at wheels, i was misinformed. still not to bad. got the graphs and figures last night.

310 ft/lbs torque.

Turns out the engine peaked at 6050rpm, he says the turbo light on the defi guage came on and the bhp stopped rising.

am i right in thinking that my fd should have 250 at the f/w ???

The bloke who did it doesnt know alot about rx's, just got it's power output, i think it needs to go to a pro rx garage to unleash more power.

On the table at the front of this thread are those figures f/w or r/w??

nick

[clive]

Hi All,

As the Dyno Results has now turned into a
''The my Dads bigger than your Dad RR thread !''
and l see it is now serving no useful purpose l have now moved the ''chat '' side of this thread to ''chit chat'' before it gets too out of hand !.

l think personally the only additions to this thread should be with RR Graphs as proof of results .

But sadly all this banter has probably confused a lot of guys and l hope they don't start thinking, why bother with any RR if these guys are saying they are all wrong.

Lets hope they all still realise the primary reason for going on a RR is to stop your Rotary from becomeing a grenade !!!!!!!


I have found this all a bit amusing though as it has taken me back to the many times l have stood in the pits and heard, '' so and so now has x HP'' and l have gone to the grid a little worried about so and so because they may have more HP than me !, but then when the race starts and l left them behind l then realise a lot of it must have been ''bar talk''
Also many a time l have had people say to me over the years, ''I'm going to blow yer doors off'' but as they say,

'' When the flag drops the Bullsh*t stops !!''.

[maximtaylor]

Fiddled on the dyno for a few hours yesterday, tweaked the timing and fuelling, kept it nice and rich and got the following.

Run at 0.95 bar, to help prolong engine life, it's quick enough!

Now I know why it feels so good on track, it's that torque curve :)

Max

[gsb876]

Is that wheels or fly Max???

[maximtaylor]

Come on Gurj! Wheels of course ;)

[gsb876]

Calm down Max just asking :rollin :rollin :rollin

Good figures though :)

[maximtaylor]

:rollin

Fancy a run on the rollers when yer down next Gurj? Give your T78 a good workout! 400+ easy :)

[chrisBoid]

Not sure if this table is stil being updated, but just for the record: -

Owner : Chris Bird
Engine Built by : Mazda :)
Tuned by : RE:Worx
Car : FD RX-7
Engine/Turbo : 13B Twin turbo
Dyno HP : 276.7 HP (at the wheels)
Location : RE:Worx / Dyno Dynamics
Date : 16/12/2004

Previous Thread I posted with dyno print-outs : - http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11444

Thanks

Chris.

[gsb876]

Originally posted by maximtaylor
:rollin

Fancy a run on the rollers when yer down next Gurj? Give your T78 a good workout! 400+ easy :)

Ha ha !!! will be dyno'd in march at Nobles (thread in meets section) so we shall see????:confused: at the mo mapped to run 1 bar so interesting to see what i got.

Ran 342bhp @ 0.6 bar :)

[sadgoth]

see Max, you've started the old pub talk again ;) :rollin

[maximtaylor]

It needed reviving! There are loads of cars out there that haven't posted figures recently, but have been on dyno's!

Plus I know Fish loves the banter, and Glenn has lots of free time to update the tables ;) He'll be getting up about now.

[88GT-R]

Hi Max,
Any reason why the pull was in third?

John

[gsb876]

I think their particular dyno can't handle speeds in 4th gear???

[maximtaylor]

Gear selection makes negligable difference to the power reading.

On the dyno dynamics rollers, 'ideal' roller speed is up to around 100mph, hence 3rd gear.

Although 3rd gear generates more torque to the rollers than 4th, the computer knows the roller speed (which is obviously lower on a 3rd gear pull. Also, the computer controls the ramp rate, which means that a pull in 3rd takes as long as a pull in 4th.

The only variable that differs is resistance/losses through the transmission and tyres to the rollers. The difference between 3rd and 4th gear is negligable, 3 or 4 hp, if that!

I wanted to check the theory for my own reassurance, so I have checked this with several cars now, and the graphs were near identical, within 2 hp in all cases.

This means that our 'pub talk' figures can't be fudged with different tyre and axle ratio combinations ;)

Max

[88GT-R]

Cheers.

John

[Smifta]

I have my 'old' figures in that table. A few months ago I got Geff to slam in some 1300 secondaries and remap my Apexi. This was when he was mapping at CPL. Geff managed to get 306 rwhp at 14psi. This is a completely stock motor with seq. twins.

About a month later I went back to get a new clutch!!! LOL

I wonder if a slipping clutch made too much difference to the figures and mapping ?!?! hmmm......

Alex.

[Sean]

Had mine on the rollers last week ........... 285bhp ......... somethings wrong:(

Still got a higher figure than a porshe turbo and MR2 turbo though;)

[Warthog]

Down at Geffs yesterday. MAX did the Dyno ,TOPMAN. Full report on the FDUK Forum. 301.8 rwbh @ 0.95 bar very healthy map on the AF's etc.:cool

[jonyb]

Originally posted by Warthog
Down at Geffs yesterday. MAX did the Dyno ,TOPMAN. Full report on the FDUK Forum. 301.8 rwbh @ 0.95 bar very healthy map on the AF's etc.:cool

Good stuff, had mine done by Max yesterday too, although was stuck in an office so could,nt make it, maybe catch up some time as your not far away:)

[grinder]

Originally posted by Sean
Had mine on the rollers last week ........... 285bhp ......... somethings wrong:(

Still got a higher figure than a porshe turbo and MR2 turbo though;)

its not a bad figure - what was you hoping for ?? ( and if thats RWHP then you are looking at something like 330 at the fly )

what mods does it have again ??

and what boost it is running ??

Stu

[bnaellis]

Originally posted by jonyb
Good stuff, had mine done by Max yesterday too, although was stuck in an office so could,nt make it, maybe catch up some time as your not far away:)

How much power mate? how much boost you running ? I bet its sickenly quick??

rgds

[jonyb]

Long story with mine,on its 2nd rebuild in 2000 miles.
Went pop on the rollers due to injector problem last time, Geffs been good with the fix and helped in other area's so no complaints from me.

330 rwhp at .8 bar yesterday

On a T04R with loads of extra's, ill put a list at some point but last was a APEXI pfc and 1600 secondery's.

Keeping the boost down until water injection (dont want any more unplanned probs), which will be a couple of weeks. To be honist not really chasing hp now, just want to get as fast as i can now in set up and launch.

Just want to get in and drive, and yes it feels...fast, times will tell.


:) :)

[bnaellis]

ouch sounds expensive. Hopefully the worst is nehind you now and you can enjoy some nice trouble free mototring. All the best mate.

rgds

Originally posted by jonyb
Long story with mine,on its 2nd rebuild in 2000 miles.
Went pop on the rollers due to injector problem last time, Geffs been good with the fix and helped in other area's so no complaints from me.

330 rwhp at .8 bar yesterday

On a T04R with loads of extra's, ill put a list at some point but last was a APEXI pfc and 1600 secondery's.

Keeping the boost down until water injection (dont want any more unplanned probs), which will be a couple of weeks. To be honist not really chasing hp now, just want to get as fast as i can now in set up and launch.

Just want to get in and drive, and yes it feels...fast, times will tell.


:) :)

[Warthog]

Engine mods are--- HURLEY Street ported new engine run-in 2000 miles on the engine. Stock Twins. HKS Exhaust with FEED de-cat box. HKS induction kit. APEXI + Commander. Bosh uprated fuel pump. 1300 secondary injectors. GREDDY Pulley kit ( air pump removed ). PWR uprated Rad. PWR Charge Cooler kit. Plugs 10's and 11's. Magnecor 10mm ignition leads. GREDDY boost controler. BLITZ Turbo Timer.
301.8 rwbh @ 0.95 bar. 362.2 @ the fly. Solid AF Map. 85% fuel use. The AF map is that good i can leave it on high boost setting all the time as long as i am running Shell in Optimax ( used to tune ) in the tank. I'm not going to, but it's nice to have that confidence in the back of your mind.
Will post scans when my own PC is back from the shop, hard drive died.:cool

[Warthog]

JONY B-- Yes i was there when MAX did yours. What a 45% turbo line it just kept going up. That is one ANIMAL of a car. RESPECT.
We will have to meet up when she is all done, send me a PM and we can sort out the details Mobile numbers etc.:wave

[Sean]

Originally posted by grinder
its not a bad figure - what was you hoping for ?? ( and if thats RWHP then you are looking at something like 330 at the fly )

what mods does it have again ??

and what boost it is running ??

Stu

That was 285 on the fly, Pip say's I need new plugs. He said it's suppossed to be 325ish

Engine mod's include:

Stainless Steel Janwa De-catted Exhaust
Twin HKS green airfilters
Apexi Power FC & Commander

And thats it for power mod's:(

[Warthog]

Can someone update the chart so we can all see where we are and what we need to do to improve. Thats if you want to play that game, but it is nice to see where your pride and joy sits in the rwbhp / fwbhp ranking. Ta.

[20B_boy]

The actual html job that Glenn started is an arse to edit. I'm happy to do an excel-based .jpeg job and keep it up to date as and when people post...

Some agreement on how the various dyno outputs should be converted to flywheel hp needs to be reached I guess i.e. how else do you list power at the wheels, hubs or fly in order?

[cjr]

Can you put mine up please:D

[scooby_si]

Rich can you mail me the xls spreadsheet you've done i was guna do one myself which looked like the html thing but easier to modify i like xls it;s all i :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: do at work anyway....<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm46052GB' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_8_11v.gif' border=0></a>
si@fduk.org best bet as hotmail is being arsey & my outlook deletes all attachments....
ta
Si

[Spotlamp]

Do you think you could post mine up please?

Made 317rwhp, made at RE:Worx on 25/02/05 and tuned by Geff.

Running stock twins with an engine built by Tim @ RX Motors (non-ported).

Cheers
H

[jonyb]

Well seems as were looking at figures, and i know ive got more , but made 323rwhp at the good old Reworx 13th Jan.
T04R .8bar.

tuned by Geff. Built by ??

thanks

Jon

[gsb876]

Not sure how my car got on the dyno sheet but the info's wrong dudes,

Car made 342.7 @ Fly @ 0.6bar boost.

Tuned by WGT supplied via Dragon, supporting a T78 not T76 turbo thanks:)

Gurj

[petemillis]

Most consistently reliable conversion factors I have found for a rear wheel drive are as follows.

RWHP +10hp to arrive at ATH HP then take into account 12% loss from fly to hubs by dividing by 0.88.

So, 250 rwhp + 10 hp = 260 ath hp
260/0.88 = 295 atf hp

Going the other way 295 atf hp - 12% = 260 ath hp
260 ath hp - 10 hp = 250 rwhp

[PETE SMITH]

Oooo, i'm being knocked down the chart and even by a stock twinturbo!!
Better get some fresh Dyno fettling done by Max!!
Pete:eek:

[scooby_si]

how the heck are we doing this then as all the nobles figures are at the flywheel which when i asked was calculated from the -ve figures to calculate transmission losses or such like & basically thats only figure given which at first glance the figures so far are ATRW? I know it's all subjective & kinda hard to compare anyway just after some clarity on how the results need posting?<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm46052GB' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_7_6.gif' border=0></a>
Ta
Si

[Warthog]

Just a point on the chart, is it worth showing what BAR or part thereof the BHP was attained at. I'm sure it would be of interest to, if no one else, us lesser mortals who have not yet gone single. Is it possible or should i just be shot for asking stupid questions????????????:rollin

[petemillis]

How about 3 columns for horsepower:
1. ATF hp
2. ATH hp
3. RWHP
And if someone has indicated an ATF hp figure, then they need to show how this was derived from ATH or RWHP (unless of course the engine was out and put on an engine dyno).

I'm guessing not many have tested on an engine dyno, so it might be an idea if everybody just quoted their RWHP or ATH hp (RWHP + 10), and then a single conversion factor for all readings to estimate ATF hp
i.e. assuming 12% trans loss from fly to hub, the estimated ATF hp would be: (RWHP + 10hp)/(1 - 0.12)

The divider (1 - 0.12) is (1 - 12%) so assuming an ATF hp figure of 100 hp, subtracting 12% for trans loss gives 88 hp ATH. To add that loss onto the ATH figure you need to divide 88 hp by (1 - 12%), i.e 88hp/(1 - 0.12) = 88hp/0.88 = 100hp. I've seen people adding 12% to 88hp in which case you only arrive at 98.6 ATF hp. at

[cjr]

funny statement I know. But surely the rwhp should be what is used. As this is what connects the car to the road(some times)!!

[scooby_si]

but as mentionned previously all we have from the Nobles RR day is ATF & i'd rather rely on there accurate figures (yeah thought i'd start a dyno accuracy debate with that wording ;) lol) rather than just using a standard theory/formula to work out RWHP possibly with more inaccurracies......<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm46052GB' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_1_5.gif' border=0></a>
Ho hum no fun if it's easy should be our moto :rollin
Si

[Smifta]

Originally posted by scooby_si
rather than just using a standard theory/formula to work out RWHP possibly with more inaccurracies......<a

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely Noble's only came to your figure by using a standard theory/formula.

Perhaps someone should find out 'what' formula they used? (unless I'm talking out my botty, and they use the run-down method).

[scooby_si]

they told me the figures were using the -ve load kinda thing which i presume is the "run-down" method & that they couldn't caluclate it back with a standard formula as they vary from car to car. Seemed a little weird they couldn't just whack the actual power at rollers on too but hey only going on what i was told & i still like my lill graph either way.....
Si

[RE:Worx]

What dyno is Pip getting? I vaguely recall Dom from Dyno Dynamics mentioning Pip so may be its a DD too? would be nice if there was a DD up that way...

[gsb876]

Not sure which Dyno Pip is getting, once i've been i'll let you guys know. :)

[Carl]

Pip is getting the Dyna pack hub dyno.These are a very good tool and very kind to your car,they use windows software,and are not Dos based.
Regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Yeah, Geff said yesterday, DD were abit slow with the hard sell apparently :)

Windows software - hope the IT geeks arent reading this! :rollin DD will soon be susceptible to the Windows patented 'blue screen of death' too as they have Windows software being finalised atm. Hopefully it wont be a compulsory 'upgrade'! ;-)

Every one has a preference I guess, Geff and Phil have used Abbey and CPL more than most here and decided the Dyno Dynamics was theirs. Geff was introduced to the DD when he went to Aus with MicroTech in 2003 and was very impressed. He used Jon at RX Engineerings Dyno Dynamics. Either way, a dyno is a very useful tool to have in your workshop as you say Carl...

Other people who use Dyno Dynamics (extracted from our website) just for the sake of it:

Maztech
Mazfix
Dalton Automotive
Dyson Rotary
Rotormaster
Selectmaz

Be very happy if we get any where near replicating any of those guys achievements in the future, LOL!

[g11ary]

Just flicking through here the other day and Ive been moved down to 9th but should be in 5th just above Ant, some pages ago my dyno at the hubs was 365
And Gurj in 6th is at the fly?

[20B_boy]

My attempt is temporary but is easy to update so if any one wants it changed then just let me know.

Gary - no offense - I'm sure a few of the entries are wrong! I've moved you back up to numero 5. The reason Gurj is their with FWHP is that no one seems to want to agree on a conversion factor between W/F/H power - so I just listed them 'as recorded' and indicated whehter W/F/H...

[sdminus]

It all looks very good but weather its fly or wheel seems irrevant really. It should all be on a even keel either fly or wheel not both. Also i would think that dyno figures should be backed up with accurate graphs from calibrated dynos to count.

May well be wrong but just my feelings.

[g11ary]

can see where the confusion is, I think Glen converted my hubs to wheels as I think thats what he wanted to get to, now is a mixture, fly obviously lower thats why I noticed it. Regardless of conversion factor if its wrong everyones would be wrong by the same amount but should probably convert everything to fly as must use it (and its bigger)

I think all figures on here have been provided by sheets via the owners or the tuning companies doing them.

[PETE SMITH]

"dyno-dynamics" and "Flywheel" seem popular-converting the rolling road "at the wheel" to "flywheel" seems ultra simple if you've got the right equipment.
Though i agree boost bar IS a major factor when comparing RXy's.
Pete:)

[20B_boy]

Its easy to just use a deemed loss to convert from wheel to fly (for e.g.) - its a matter of agreeing what the conversion is tho or half those on the forum will be unhappy - you lot decide! We used to use a fixed 18% loss to convert from wheels to fly power, but that may or may not be accurate (unlikely) - and for a fact some will disagree strongly. You'll find umpteen different opinions as to how wheel/whatever power etc relates fly/whatever power.

Far be it from me to decide whats 'right'.

[PETE SMITH]

IMHO,
It's fairly clear from the list that the significant factors seem to be:
1-whether it's ported
2-Is it a Phallic Toe-HKS or maybe the BB Garrett?
3-Non sequential Twins have a part too
4-If your Rexy is for straight 1/4 mile burn's, reliability is less of an issue
Unlike piston/conrod/cam non rotary engines, the reasons for differences in performance is simpler to see.
Maybe i'm talkin a load of testicles:D :rolleyes:
Pete

[banned advertiser]

Originally posted by petemillis
Most consistently reliable conversion factors I have found for a rear wheel drive are as follows.

RWHP +10hp to arrive at ATH HP then take into account 12% loss from fly to hubs by dividing by 0.88.

So, 250 rwhp + 10 hp = 260 ath hp
260/0.88 = 295 atf hp

Going the other way 295 atf hp - 12% = 260 ath hp
260 ath hp - 10 hp = 250 rwhp

Rich, you are the number cruncher.
can the sums above be worked out into a percentage, or just use whats a simple calculation like this one if it is the accurate.

Then can we all argree that figures to be quoted are fly.

If others disagree later, well tough you could change things constantly, were not looking for accurate we want something comparable. The other important items also that Pete put forward such as porting, psi, turbos etc can also be added .

At the end of the day it should be more fun than anything else.

The biggest bhp may rebuild every race, but bhp blown up on the dyno dont count, it must at least drive home or somewhere. Its all pub talk (where's danny when you want him)

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by PETE SMITH
Unlike piston/conrod/cam non rotary engines, the reasons for differences in performance is simpler to see.

Hey Pete!

HKS turbos are Garretts - but with housing profiles and designs and wheel combinations that are proprietary to HKS i.e. Garrett cant make them for others. Note that some HKS turbos ARE ball bearing too, in spite of the fact that most people assume they all still use bush bearing technology.

The main performance factors are the same with pistons and rotors - port shape on a rotor is the equivalent to cam shaft profile on a boinger for e.g.

[20B_boy]

How does this look, will add other info if peeps want:

http://www.reworx.com/images/MRC_dyno_table.jpg

My excel skills arent great so let me know if u think the fly numbers look wrong, lol!

Most of all though, this is for a laugh at the pub - I dont personally agree with the notion of fixed losses but dont car ;-)

May be we can clea up this thread a bit Gary? just leave peoples graphs and get rid of some clutter?

[PETE SMITH]

Well done Rich :cool
BTW can you confirm my car getting its bits on the week beginning 4th April?
Pete:wave

[Warthog]

When ANT ran his 12.71 1/4 on stock twins in July 2002 has anybody any idea what bhp fly or wheel he was running at ????

[cjr]

He didn't know it at the time as far as i am aware he only found out his bhp a couple off weeks ago! very nice power though.

[Warthog]

How do i contact him to ask him ? :wave

[cjr]

db2boy is his user name pm him. not sure what he is up to atm so might take a while.

[Warthog]

Thanks mate will do.:)

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by Warthog
When ANT ran his 12.71 1/4 on stock twins in July 2002 has anybody any idea what bhp fly or wheel he was running at ????
Ant's car was dyno'd ROUGHLY around that time at 292 at the wheels on G-Force's Dyno Dynamics rolling road (at the first FDUK rolling road day) ;-)

It has since been rebuilt a couple of times I think, last output was on a fresh motor CJR :D

John - Ant was running all day (literally) in order to nail that one launch that earnt him <13

Seems a long time ago now, I remember it well. Have in-car of it still some where...

[cjr]

It has since been rebuilt a couple of times I think, last output was on a fresh motor CJR

Very true.

[Warthog]

Thanks for that Chris. Yes i would like to see the in car as and when you dig it out. J.C.

[John Yorke]

Hi Rich [tea boy:D ]

Some VERY slight alterations to my entry: Taken from my Dyno pack results {@ Abbey] [06.03.04] Hub BHP 346.5, AFR 11.75,1bar booost giving FWHP of 396.5 running SEQUNTIAL TURBO'S, this has changed somewhat since then but have no graphs to back them up....................for now:D :D

C U N Friday;)

Think that might sit me @ 6th, BTW thought GURJ was originaly FWHP? ie:343FWHP, or have I missed something.

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by PETE SMITH
BTW can you confirm my car getting its bits on the week beginning 4th April?
Pete:wave
Youre penciled in for the w/c the 4th - let geff know whens best...

John - will amend later u picky get ;-)

[John Yorke]

[

John - will amend later u picky get ;-) [/B][/QUOTE]

:cool What do you mean .............. me picky nah...... Just a bit more street cred or is it better pub boasting:rollin :rollin :rollin

[20B_boy]

What were your dyno dynamics figures John compared to dynapack?

[Warthog]

Rich just sent you a PM on the FDUK site.

[John Yorke]

[B]What were your dyno dynamics figures John compared to dynapack?

Did them back to back to ensure the tests were the same

Dynopack [Abbey]: 346.5 ATH @ 7238rpm 291.2 FW torque @5640rpm
AFR 11.5 , boost 1.0 bar

Dyno Dynamics [CPL]: 315.7 ATW @ 7200 265 Ftlbs torque @5640 ATW

Works out about 10bhp difference if you work the figures back to FW

[Carl]

Hi john,
What gear did you do the runs in on each of the rolling road's?What revs did you max out at?
Were both test's done with in an hour or so of each other on the same day?
Regards
Carl:)

[maximtaylor]

I agree Carl, more tests are required to come up with hub / roller figures.

Anyone else had there car on both types (Dynapack and Dyno Dynamics) for comparison?

[chris]

Max,
Can you put my results on the spreadsheet please
Owner: chris sense tuning
engine built by: sense tuning
Tuned by Reworx
Car FD
Street port 13b 2 hybrid 12a turbo's
RWHP 405 HP
Flywheel 481.3 HP
@ reworx 24/12/2004

[John Yorke]

Originally posted by Carl
Hi john,
What gear did you do the runs in on each of the rolling road's?What revs did you max out at?
Were both test's done with in an hour or so of each other on the same day?
Regards
Carl:)

Hi Carl

Both runs were in 3rd gear
Revs were more or less the same peak power was approx 7200 both power runs finished soon after that, no more than 8k
Both tests were within the same week, unfortunatly I have to work in between times;)
The car had the same fuel [Optimax]
Apart from having the dyno machines side by side I think that is about as close as you will get, as a comparison.
I think if you go through this rather long thread there are graphs to show all the details........................ :confused:

[Carl]

Originally posted by John Yorke
Hi Carl

Both runs were in 3rd gear
Revs were more or less the same peak power was approx 7200 both power runs finished soon after that, no more than 8k
Both tests were within the same week, unfortunatly I have to work in between times;)
The car had the same fuel [Optimax]
Apart from having the dyno machines side by side I think that is about as close as you will get, as a comparison.
I think if you go through this rather long thread there are graphs to show all the details........................ :confused:

Hi John,
Thanks for that,are you sure about the run being in 3rd gear at Abbey?I allways do them in 4th on the Dyno Hub.
Regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Makes pretty much zero difference on the Dyno Dynamics - does it change much on the hub dyno then?

I remember Guy had an R32 on his dyno which was then taken to Abbey the same day - a similiar rollers/hub variance to that which John saw fwiw.

[88GT-R]

Hi,

Can you adjust the spreadsheat to read 348whp, taken in September 04 at AVB sports in Germany. Streetport tuned by myself. 352nm at the wheels.

John

[jonyb]

Had a good drive up to Thor at Warwick Saturday (2 April) with me local Jap car club.

Having run me motor in and already having a Dyno figure from Geff @ReWorx, was really for a day out and check up to make all was ok.
Anyway, final figure turned out at 379hp on the hubs, was a little shocked as had been 323rwhp at Geff's.

Is this variance acceptable, i can understand that two different machines,different days, different operators and all that and i would always try to get to Reworx if i can.....dont know.

As far as engine and mods, both on the same spec. no changes between the two runs.

.8 bar, a/f looked good and an 'interesting' drive.

J.

[Carl]

Originally posted by jonyb
Had a good drive up to Thor at Warwick Saturday (2 April) with me local Jap car club.

Having run me motor in and already having a Dyno figure from Geff @ReWorx, was really for a day out and check up to make all was ok.
Anyway, final figure turned out at 379hp on the hubs, was a little shocked as had been 323rwhp at Geff's.

Is this variance acceptable, i can understand that two different machines,different days, different operators and all that and i would always try to get to Reworx if i can.....dont know.

As far as engine and mods, both on the same spec. no changes between the two runs.

.8 bar, a/f looked good and an 'interesting' drive.

J.


Yes dynos do read differently.
I went to TDI the other day and the use a hub dyno,they reckon that there readings are 7% less than the one at Abbey.They are both different makes.
That is why I have said many many times that dyno's are only a tool to tune your car, and for consistancy in tuning you should try to use not only the same make of dyno but the exact same one if at all possible when making changes and tuning again.
All dyno figures should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Regards
Carl

[Carl]

Out of interest when I was tuning the other day we maxed the cars out to 170mph to put a good load on the engine.Not all dyno's can do that.Some are more limited in their speed.
Regards
Carl;)

[jonyb]

Originally posted by Carl
Out of interest when I was tuning the other day we maxed the cars out to 170mph to put a good load on the engine.Not all dyno's can do that.Some are more limited in their speed.
Regards
Carl;)


170mph.....fking hell, Thor got to 127mph in 4th and that was to much for me........ i stood outside, bit loud....

Understand on your comments for these things, im more bothered that its hp reliable side than big hp re-build time....

fast enough......for the minute, Rotorstock will tell :cool

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by Carl
Out of interest when I was tuning the other day we maxed the cars out to 170mph to put a good load on the engine. Not all dyno's can do that. Some are more limited in their speed.

Why did u do that Carl? is it hard to load cars up on the hub dyno then? cant think why you would need 170mph road speed to generate adequate load whilst tuning - or were u just testing out Dave's silly-big brakes? :rollin

[Carl]

Originally posted by jonyb
170mph.....fking hell, Thor got to 127mph in 4th and that was to much for me........ i stood outside, bit loud....

Understand on your comments for these things, im more bothered that its hp reliable side than big hp re-build time....

fast enough......for the minute, Rotorstock will tell :cool

Well your car should be reliable since it has been mapped at ReWorx.
The reason that we map to a high speed should be pretty obvious really,the car is not limited to only 120mph so the tuning should be done at the limits of the car and not the dyno whatever the hp you require.After all,how many people only drive their car to the redline in 3rd gear?especially on track days.

The dyno hub puts plenty of load on the engine but enables all of the gears to be properly tuned,if the engine is only tuned in 3rd gear then the turbo will come on boost differently from 4th and 5th and in those gears the tune may not be as safe,But I would have thought that any good tuner would know that.
Regards
Carl;)

[J4P RX]

Presumably a real 170 is also going to be very different to a stationary 170 though, unless you have enough fans to produce that sort of windspeed?

[jonyb]

All down to the tuner i suppose, although i can see where you coming from.
As it was group dyno got to the numbers and happy to drive home.

Carl,

Andrew with the 02 spirit ( i think you serviced it for him) got 255@hubs (ex factory 280fwhp) ....he was happy with that i think. Just for info.

J;)

[Carl]

Originally posted by jonyb
All down to the tuner i suppose, although i can see where you coming from.
As it was group dyno got to the numbers and happy to drive home.

Carl,

Andrew with the 02 spirit ( i think you serviced it for him) got 255@hubs (ex factory 280fwhp) ....he was happy with that i think. Just for info.

J;)

But remember that the 280hp is the agreed limit from the japanese manufacturers,so in all likelyhood the spirit has more than 280 flywheel.
Andrews car is on a stock ecu still too.
regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by Carl
Well your car should be reliable since it has been mapped at ReWorx.
The reason that we map to a high speed should be pretty obvious really,the car is not limited to only 120mph so the tuning should be done at the limits of the car and not the dyno whatever the hp you require.After all,how many people only drive their car to the redline in 3rd gear?especially on track days.

The dyno hub puts plenty of load on the engine but enables all of the gears to be properly tuned,if the engine is only tuned in 3rd gear then the turbo will come on boost differently from 4th and 5th and in those gears the tune may not be as safe,But I would have thought that any good tuner would know that.
Regards
Carl;)
In case it isnt evident I dont do any tuning for RE:Worx! :confused:

Carl,

I dont see how road speed correlates to load and thus why you need to tune maximum load at 170mph. My understanding is this (ltd I grant u!): the ECU determines ignition and fuel settings at any given time by looking up the current engine load (which it uses the MAP sensor to measure) and referencing it to engine rpm. How does the amount of timing or fuel required at a certain engine load vary with road speed? isnt the timing and fuel the same for a given load, whether you are in 2nd or 5th? the boost pattern will vary loads but the ecu will look at the same values in the MAP to determine what it does - theres no gear or road speed correction? so what does it matter which gear u tune in as long as all your loads sites are covered - which they will be - ? I'm confused. I will ask Max later, I'm sorry if I'm missing some thing.

Hopefully some one else finds this interesting too!

R.

[88GT-R]

Originally posted by 20B_boy
In case it isnt evident I dont do any tuning for RE:Worx! :confused:

Carl,

I dont see how road speed correlates to load and thus why you need to tune maximum load at 170mph. My understanding is this (ltd I grant u!): the ECU determines ignition and fuel settings at any given time by looking up the current engine load (which it uses the MAP sensor to measure) and referencing it to engine rpm. How does the amount of timing or fuel required at a certain engine load vary with road speed? isnt the timing and fuel the same for a given load, whether you are in 2nd or 5th? the boost pattern will vary loads but the ecu will look at the same values in the MAP to determine what it does - theres no gear or road speed correction? so what does it matter which gear u tune in as long as all your loads sites are covered - which they will be - ? I'm confused. I will ask Max later, I'm sorry if I'm missing some thing.

Hopefully some one else finds this interesting too!

R.

Hi Rich,
Load points in 4th gear will differ to load points in 5th gear, same as the difference between 3rd and 4th. Part of this is due to the time difference taken to cover the effective rpm range, and the amount of load asserted over the same area.
For instance, say an engine´s peak torque is found to be at 6000rpm. Peak torque being the highest load point, and most probable point for detonation. As the engine accelerates through this point, a tuner might not notice an increase in Knock or hiccups in fueling. If he were to tune the car in a higher gear, the time spent over this range will increase thus improving the chances of tuning out any anomolies.
The tuner may wish to hold the dyno load at this point to simulate this effect in a lower gear, but ultimately will not give a true representation of the load characteristics experianced in the higher gear. Chassis dynos should be used to suppliment ones tuning methods, not determine them.
Most common enviroments for tip failure are on the road and in the higher gears, accelerating through the engine´s peak load point.
Sorry for the long winded reply, i hope that it may be of some help.

John

[Carl]

Originally posted by 20B_boy
In case it isnt evident I dont do any tuning for RE:Worx! :confused:
R.

It is,don't worry.

See what John has said.
Thanks John for explaining the reasoning.Also if you map only in one gear then you are likely to end up with parts of the map that have not been tuned,eg a high gear at low rpm will end up in a part of the map that a mid gear will not.You still have to input the data to control the event correctly so that when the ecu detects those parameters it knows exactly what to do.
Regards
Carl

[maximtaylor]

Yup, just found this thread. I agree that the longer you spend going through a cell, the greater degree of finesse you can apply. A/F correlation to the cells in question is more accurate, and so is the volume of information you get in feedback.

The cells you pass through also vary slightly, a slower pull goes through into boost cells far earlier than a regular shootout power run, although once you hit the peak average boost cells, the journey across the rev range is as before.

This can be mimicked on many dyno's by adjusting the ramp rate manually, effectively giving the same slow rate of acceleration and loading that a higher gear would give. Two ways of reaching the same result.

Good cooling fans are a necessity for this!!! The extra load turns the rotary engine into a very effective kettle ;)

Off to play fireman now, cheerio!

[20B_boy]

Thanks guys - I like to learn :)

So you can achieve the same thing by adjusting the ramp rate - I figured that if my knowledge and logic failed that there must be some way of replciating the afforementioned conditions or some of big guys who tune on DD's, err, wouldnt!

[PETE SMITH]

Ooo, this is a bit technical for my addled brain!
It reminds me of Treadmill tests for people with dodgy hearts!:eek:
The correlation for the RX is scary!
Most people with Angina are smokers-BUT ALOT ARE GENETIC LINKED- they give out lots of emissions from there Tabs...a bit like an RX....And they both eventually need a rebuild!..I suppose Coronary artery grafting is a good quality Port!!:p
Pete
BTW, i smoke cigars..:o

[John Yorke]

[
Pete
BTW, i smoke cigars..:o [/B][/QUOTE]

Tut tut Dr Pete:D
How can you face your patients having partaken a lar-de-dar:bandit

PS Find this part of the thread very interesting

[PETE SMITH]

Mints and aftershave!:p
though, you must remember some people we see, don't alf honk!
Pete :)

[MikeLMR]

how do these different types of dyno's work then ?

I know some use a rotating mass and just work it out by how quickly it can be accelerated but then I imagine thats not the best thing for actually mapping an engine ?

I'm not 100% sure but the water brakes we use at work vary the load to hold the engine at a constant speed and calcuate the power from that.

And how do you calibrate a rolling road ? I can see how you can make sure the rotating mass ones a pretty much spot on by making the flywheel arrangment accurately but the brake type would require somthing of know power output to calibrate it ???

[maximtaylor]

The dyno dynamics type uses a system similar to a Telma (electromagnetic retarder) on a LGV Mike.

How it is initially calibrated, I'll find out.

I think the Dynapak uses fluid?

[g11ary]

Originally posted by 20B_boy
Thanks guys - I like to learn :)

So you can achieve the same thing by adjusting the ramp rate - I figured that if my knowledge and logic failed that there must be some way of replciating the afforementioned conditions or some of big guys who tune on DD's, err, wouldnt!

So do all the DD's have the same limitations or are the big boys using bigger better DD's.

Is that like comparing it to a folk lift, and a ramp
both will lift the car, only one better and possible without damage.

[Carl]

Originally posted by maximtaylor
The dyno dynamics type uses a system similar to a Telma (electromagnetic retarder) on a LGV Mike.

How it is initially calibrated, I'll find out.

I think the Dynapak uses fluid?

Hi Max,
The type I used the other day works similarly to the DD,but there is no "flywheel effect" from the weight of the rollers themselves that can affect the way that the rollers act upon the rest of the car when going through the gears.Of course when holding a point then that will alleviate that.

Hey Rich,
Come on,I am sure that you know how your equipment operates,and don't need Max to explain it on here since he is working for you.
Regards
Carl:rollin

[maximtaylor]

Hi Gary :)

I think most of the Rolling Roads available now are far more advanced than people think, especially if the operator knows how to use them properly! The big leap was the addition of the computer to the system.

Most dyno's can hold / retard / ramp / display and store all manner of parameters / make the tea these days.

I guess as with all things, people have preferences to makes and types.

Max

Originally posted by g11ary
So do all the DD's have the same limitations or are the big boys using bigger better DD's.

Is that like comparing it to a folk lift, and a ramp
both will lift the car, only one better and possible without damage.

[g11ary]

Originally posted by maximtaylor
Hi Gary :)
make the tea these days.

Max

Hi Max :)

Looks like my jobs gone then :D

[zevans]

OK, so, can any of you make a RR work properly with a Renesis? :D

[maximtaylor]

The rolling road bit is fine, it's the Renesis bit that's the problem ;)

[rmagictastic]

Well, finally got round to getting the FD tuned and commpression tested yesterday down in Pompey.

Results: 7.2 on every rotor face....NICE!!!

265RW/HP @ 0.8 Bar (i think, or was it .9 max?)

The car is now smoother than baileys on ice :D :D

And by the way the fuel economy has gone through the roof, it cost me twice as much to get there in the morning pootling along, as it did thrashing her all the way home.!!

Thanks to Chris and Geoff for the friendly and no messing about service, they found a couple of problems, and just got on and fixed them.

Thanks to Max for the setup and the demonstartion on how to fill a workshop with smoke!!! I will let you explain Max.

(by the way max took it all the way through 3rd and fouth a couple of times on the way home)


Nick

:cool

[maximtaylor]

Originally posted by rmagictastic
265RW/HP @ 0.8 Bar (i think, or was it .9 max?)


0.8 bar Nick :)


Thanks to Max for the setup and the demonstartion on how to fill a workshop with smoke!!! I will let you explain Max.

Being that you'd never used the second turbo, it did cause a slight haze when I opened her up ;)

[rmagictastic]

thats right i always wondered what happened after 5000 revs

:D

now i know i think i may be visiting the second turbo more regularly!!!

ive seen the light!!

[Warthog]

Could someone update my HP figs on the list please.
Also pics of Rich without a fag & beer on the go but a spanner.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

[Warthog]

Sorry, FORGOT the pic, stupid boy, don't tell them your name PIKE.

Can't seem to upload at the moment, will try later.

[Warthog]

Could the list be updated please -- new figs as per my signature. Many thanks J.C.

[ninjasx]

Hey guys:)
I picked up my 92 FD yesterday, it`s standard apart from a Mazdaspeed catback.
Today I took it down to Surrey Rolling Road in Camberley where we have a 4WD Dyno Dynamics chassis dyno( I am a dyno operator there;) )
the results i got are as follows:

199.3hp ATW
237.6hp ATF

the point the second turbo kicked in the fuelling went off the scale past 10:1 afr
Primary turbo peaked at 0.75bar secondary hit 0.69bar before dropping down to 0.6bar

[jurgen]

here is my scan from pips yesterday with machine reading 5%low at the hubs its reading 341.2 hp with should be about 423bhp on 0.8boost.

car was built by mazdaspeed 1995 type r t78

graphs here http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16247

[Spotlamp]

Is anyone keeping the main dyno table up-to-date? Wasn't there talk of some easier way to do this, perhaps a link to a page on the MRC site which has a database attached to it?

Anyone fancy putting this together?

Cheers
H

[A7NTY]

Can you add me, 527 rwbhp @ 1.4 bar, Sterte Garage, Bridgeport + T51R Kai turbo ;)

[20B_boy]

Got home in one piece then mate? :wave

[Warthog]

Nice one ANT, looking coolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll. :cool

[Don Pamponi]

I will have to enter the only FB on the big HP chart as soon as Tim has finnished fitting the boost controller.
It dyno'd 217rwhp@8psi previously. It will be running 15psi this week so i'm hoping for 250+rwhp in a car that weighs less than Jonny vegas!! Bhp/ton means it should fly up the 1/4.

[dandan]

Hi guys, can someone stick me into the table please!

Dan Verge
Engine Re-built be Re:worx
Tuned by Panspeed Japan
Car is FD RX-7
Engine is 13B twin turbo
HP 274.1 rwhp, measured at Re:worx on 23/08/05

[88GT-R]

Hi,
Update(a bit late...)
S4 13BT
Built by WGT in 2002
Tuned by myself over the past 2 years
376 at the hubs @ 11psi(0.75bar)
Reading at WGT Dyno pack - 28/05/05

John

[Kieron]

Update Time

[Ada7]

Can someone put mine on the table please :)
Engine was built by RoTecniks, twin turbo, tuned by ReWorks


Adam

[Kieron]

Forgot to ask how you got on Adam, DOH! good result

[Ada7]

Cheers mate. was happy with it considering i didnt have any boost at all!!

http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18075
That'll explain all. :)

If your about on friday night or saturday give me a call, we'll meet up. If not see you sunday in town :cheers

Adam

[Kieron]

I am free Friday night IIRC. :guinness

[Ada7]

I am free Friday night IIRC. :guinness
Come downthe White lion pub in Milford. Proper Drinkin!! :guinness :guinness :guinness

Adam

Whats IIRC?

[Kieron]

If I Recall Correctly

See you there :cool

[Warthog]

Could you please update the table as per my signature. Many Thanks. :wave

When was this table last updated???????? Because as it stands that puts me in second place and I don't believe that :xconfused

[Kieron]

309.7 RWHP

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :yes :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Ada7]

Got 208.4 RWHP the other day at RE:Works RR day :D

Really happy with that as i was really expecting the same as i had a couple of weeks ago as i havent done anything to the car. The only thing i can think of that may of made a difference was that i had a new power steering pump put on as the old one was knackered. This may of freed up a little bit more power :)

Can some one update the table now with all the new figures

Adam

[John Yorke]

405 RWHP happy chapie!

[chrisBoid]

Got 208.4 RWHP the other day at RE:Works RR day :D

Really happy with that as i was really expecting the same as i had a couple of weeks ago as i havent done anything to the car. The only thing i can think of that may of made a difference was that i had a new power steering pump put on as the old one was knackered. This may of freed up a little bit more power :)

Can some one update the table now with all the new figures

Adam

You mean 280.4 RWHP matey! Have you been on another long shift again?

[Warthog]

Chris is there anyway that this thread ( bhp table can be sorted out into twins and single turbo so people can see where they are. Or just sorted out into one new table it's just so out of date and people keep adding to it with no update. The reason I am asking you is that you did such a good job with the twins 1/4 mile table. :wave

[oldone]

Hey warthog,got fuel lines and slicks fitted :burnout

[Warthog]

Go Go Go, that beauty will be racing soon man. :god

[Kieron]

Got 208.4 RWHP the other day at RE:Works RR day

Thought you were making 280+ :xconfused

[Ada7]

You mean 280.4 RWHP matey! Have you been on another long shift again?
Oh yeh. cheers mate. 280.4 RWHP.
Yeh has been another long shift! :( Always a smile on my face though on the drive home :)

Adam

[tr1cky]

Can I be added to the list please??

Standard port and turbo's
Tuned by RE:Worx

Power graph attached....

Many Thanks

Rich

[ro284]

Oh i do like that Richard, it gives a good guide as to what mods does what, i think that would be enough power for me in fact,
is it enough for you?
cheers Bob

[A7NTY]

Did I ever say, can you add my car 527rwhp @ 1.4bar boost, RX Motors bridgeport engine tuned by RE:Worx and ourselves.

Ant.

[tr1cky]

Oh i do like that Richard, it gives a good guide as to what mods does what, i think that would be enough power for me in fact,
is it enough for you?
cheers Bob


Thanks Bob :cheers

Its enough for now!! Need to concentrate on cooling and suspension over the next few months, before I increase the power anymore! :evillaugh