UK spec vs Jap spec 3rd Gen RX7

[BlitzBoy]

Hi guys, I'm a newbie so excuse the ignorance :D
I'm looking to buy my first rx7 3rd gen, I notice the uk spec has
237 bhp and the jap spec 265 bhp, what other differences are there?. Also if I do purchase a uk spec what do I have do to reverse the detuning Mazda applied to the uk spec cars to get the
full house 265 bhp?

[bnaellis]

Blitzboy Go to General section on this forum and open the thread below. Should ahve all the details you require if you read through the messages.

regards

Brian Ellis
Help on G3 RX7

[BlitzBoy]

Thanks for that :)
from what I read from the post it seems, that the main thing restricting th uk spec to 237 was the addition of the pre cat where as the Jap spec ones have only the main cat, therefore more restriction in the exhaust causing the power to drop, is this assumption true or not?

[Grizzly]

If you get the Chance buy a UK one!

They are very rare and have high spec (there basicly R1/2's ) my best mate owns a Uk spec Rx7 gen 3 and gets offers for it every where he goes.

They are lower bhp due to the lower Boost (easy to fix), the thing is the Jap imports are run on higher Octane Fuel so the power will be down in the UK and the other thing i dont like about Jap Imports is they are built to last 3 years so they dont get wax oiled etc (corrosion protected) and wont like the UK weather.

If you want to talk to some one that owns a UK spec Rx Ither Give me your E-Mail or i'll get u in contact with him.

Chris

[HPI_UK]

Originally posted by Grizzly
If you get the Chance buy a UK one!


the thing is the Jap imports are run on higher Octane Fuel so the power will be down in the UK and the other thing i dont like about Jap Imports is they are built to last 3 years so they dont get wax oiled etc (corrosion protected) and wont like the UK weather.


Chris


Ummm rubbish! Built to last 3 years???? how do you figure this out?? We import cars new from Japan like the R34 Skyline, i think it will be built to last longer than 3 years, or do you think this is why we pay more for our cars than the Japanese??
If a vehicle isn't undersealed in the UK it will rust after around 3 years on the sills, if you get it under sealed for a mere £60 it wont rust. I haven't seen any rusty UK imports unless they aren't proofed and have been in the country for a few years. Jap RON is 102, just use optimax and an additive and it will run sweet as the stated bhp. Admittadly the UK spec RX-7 is better equipped and rarer but the prices show that.....

Cheers

Adam.

[Grizzly]

Ok how do i figure this out!

For a start i am a Body man so i've see part of cars many dont, i've personaly worked on lots of jap imports and todate never found one that had cavity Wax protection (ok they do have some protection agains stone chips on the Floor). You tend to find due to the Heat in Japan/US the Wax is ither very thin or not there at all.

I am guessing not many people think about Rust protection but being in my trade i do, the reason i say its made to last 3 years is becouse the cars are not treated kindly and the Emision laws are very strict (especaly around the towns and Citys) so you tend to find they dont keep cars long.

The main reason for having Little Rust protection is to keep build costs down (Why have somthing thats not needed?)

I am not making this up! I have seen it with my own eyes and can post Pictures of inside box sections and inner quaters if you like.

The reason you find Rusty UK examples is the fact the cars have been exposed to our wet? Damp Climate for years! most imports are new in and have not had time to show signs. Have a look at 10 year old Jap (UK spec cars) that have been wax oiled etc and imagen what a car without Protection is going to look like in our less sunny Climate.

Last thing is who puts Aditive in every tank of fuel to make 105 Octaine fuel? I have rebuilt a Nissan GTI-R becouse the guy ran had the car build in japan (425 bhp) then had it shiped in, ran it on the Drag strip and was Puzzled why it would Melt spark plug all the time? it just ran so lean (big jump 92-105?), ended up blowing a hole in a piston, that was just bad luck on his part but little things all add up?

I only like to go of my own first hand Experiance.

Chris

[Grizzly]

I admit a Uk Car is'nt that much diffrent than a Jap Car its people that import them and dont think of this sort of stuff.

I am not saying Jap imports are Crap! i am trying to say there are alot out there that have not been corosion protected! and just becouse a Jap car is 300bhp in japan it dont mean it will be 300bhp on our fuel (without aditives)

I personaly run my car on Optimax and there is a noticable gain between 92 and 98 (I think is 98?) but then Diffrence between 98 and 105 must be the same again?

Do you think I'm wrong?

Chris

[BlitzBoy]

At the moment waiting for my insurance money coming through,
as some guy smacked into my 300zed a couple of months ago.
If I had the money this week I had the oppurtunity to buy a uk
spec :( oh well only a couple of weeks to wait.

:) thanks for the info, yeah fuel has a lot to do with it, I suppose something like a Power FC will overcome these problems with timing and fuel, I mean the ameriacans run on cr$ppy fuel 90 ron I believe, and still able to run 450 plus with big single turbos.

But a RX7 with 300 bhp will be a lot faster then a skyline or 300 with the same power due to weight adavantage, this is why I want one!! plus its a good looking car

[Grizzly]

Yeh 450 bhp is easy to get but keeping it Drivable is the key.

BTW you are spot on, Fitting a Power FC etc will just get rid of the fuel problem, i would still run it on Optimax still but then the Uk,Jap or U.S car will run the Same HP on the same fuel.

I was refering to this UK car is only 237 bhp thing, basicly the UK car is a R1/2 with the boost turned down.

Chris

[boltoa]

Just to clear up a common misconception, fuel octane numbers in the states are calculated using a different spec (actually (MON + RON) / 2). So you should add 4-6 points on the US spec to get the European equivalent.

Just thought I'd clear that up :).

Andrew

[Jus]

PROS for UK Car

Mileage is more likely to be unchanged...

Plenty of receipt from genuine rx7 repair shop/shops

Engine rebuild receipts

Those shop/shops should give you history regarding the maintenance etc...

Fully loaded

More skirting

Cheaper insurance

Rare

Cons

Higher (genuine mileage) mileage

Check for wear and tear

IN MY OPINION...

However, many imports are a real deal but... obviously my 1st choice would be a UK model.

Jus

[Phranque]

Let me say at the outset that I am no car expert.

However, before I retired I had a TV retail business. I can well remember a Japanese manufacturer's rep telling me that the spec of Japanese domestic equipment exported for the UK market was nothing like as tight as the spec for their home market. This - he said - was because the expectations of a UK consumer were much less than those of a Jap consumer, that is, the UK consumer was quite used to having stuff blow up and not work right so ANY improvement over that was a bonus.

OK - this was many moons ago and I doubt if it applies as much these days and maybe not at all with cars - but nevertheless I've thought of what he said many times - many times !!!!

[Grizzly]

Where where the Uk Cars Made? Am i right in saying the UK FD was built in Holland?


"was because the expectations of a UK consumer were much less than those of a Jap consumer, that is, the UK consumer was quite used to having stuff blow up and not work right so ANY improvement over that was a bonus."


This is a bit odd as the UK cars came stock with a much higher spec than the stock Jap car? + they ran lower HP so where less prone (stock to blow up! then for those who have seen a uk car close up they have more spoilers and look a bit diffrent.

Dont get me wrong the Jap cars coming over have lots of aftermarket goodies on but as Jus says they have no history? (Service and crash) give there geting very common where as the Uk one's numbers will never go up (making it rare and sought after).

I would have to say if i was on the Market for a Fd Uk is the way i'd go! this is due to the High spec and they where made for our Damp and Cold conditions.

Chris

[richrx]

hi, i was just reading through your wee debate there and was interested in what was said about the power fc. I've heard of the power fc before but im unsure of what it is, i would think that it could be a piggy back chip. Is that right?

[Phranque]

I may have mixed you up. It was domestic electronic gear I was talking about, purely as an example in principle. This was my field when I was working. I've no idea at all about cars - thicker than 2 short planks, in fact!

[Grizzly]

richrx, Power Fc is a Complete aftermarket stand alone EMS that is called a Plug and Play becouse it uses the stock Engine harness and takes 5 minutes to swap over (if your mess about). It is very verstile and for a road Fd its proberly the best value for money Ems.



Phranque, Dont worrie mate. Its just i dont like people puting down the Uk spec cars, they dont relise they were built for a completely diffrent climate and the out of the box spec of the Uk car was alot higher than the Jap equivalant. All people see is the BHP is lower! and ther Jap car is easyer to get hold of but as the UK spec uses the engine, Coolers etc from the R1/2 theres no diffrence from the Top spec Jap car (bar a bit of boost and an extra Cat).

Chris

[Jus]

Originally posted by richrx
hi, i was just reading through your wee debate there and was interested in what was said about the power fc. I've heard of the power fc before but im unsure of what it is, i would think that it could be a piggy back chip. Is that right?

HI Rich!

Here's a link with some info for you...

http://www.rx7.com/cgi-local/3catalog.cgi?cat=11&part=5

Jus

[Grizzly]

The Apexi Power Fc is a good toy for the Road if you are looking for around the 400-500bhp mark then its the toy for you.

I personaly dont like the Idea of using the origanal engine loom (lets face it most FD's are geting on for ten years old and Inports have had hot weather too) but if you want ease to fit and set up then you cant beat the Power Fc,Plug and Play.

http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics_fc.asp

Chris

P.s. Jus it must have taken you ages to think of all your mods,LOL

[richrx]

cheers guys thats the exact information i was looking for.
although do you know how rare r1/2's are for import?? and how much they would cost for a 92-95 model??

[Grizzly]

R1/2's are not very rare there are alot of Tourer's out there but look for cars with no sunroofs and no leather (stock) twin oil cooler's and you've found an R.

Prices tend to be between 8k for a nice one but dont qoute me, if you want a first class Inport talk to this guy,Miguel and his web site is www.neweraimports.com hes a first class guy and supplys quality cars, there are many people that are on this forum that have bought cars from him.

Chris

[Jus]

P.s. Jus it must have taken you ages to think of all your mods,LOL [/B][/QUOTE]

Copy and Paste from The Big List (USA)

LOL

Jus

[Grizzly]

Yeh who off?

lol only joking.

chris

[bnaellis]

I think there is a case for japanese spec rx7 being better than uk spec. On this basis in uk you had one option, in Japan you had over 15 to choose from. The version in Japan that was most similar to uk spec was the type x model. Which was the same as uk model, except you had the option of either red or black leather interior /choice of normal sunroof or moonroof, climate control, 2+2, Bose hifi I am not sure if uk ones had this can't remember, only the main cat not the problematic pre-cat like uk cars, and more power.
Other than that it's a matter or choice as in Japan there were so much different options to choose from, but as far as comparison of spec the uk and the type x were the same but the type x was better if comparing options.

rgds

Brian

[Grizzly]

lol. the Uk car has all the options you have just Merntioned std (out of the Box) the ONLY down sides i can see is A. Lower Power (due to Precat) B.No rear seats C. was stupid expencive new.

A and B can be sorted very easy.

The Pro's are Higher Resale value, Rare and more desirable (Uk specs are easly distinguished), Very high spec out of the Box (the car is a R1/2 with all the toys from the Tourer Leater,Air con,Sunroof, the lot. You will find the R spec jap import does not come with leather or a sun roof as standard (optional extra's) its the Tourer that had leather etc as std + they weight more and have lower bhp than the R (260 i think on Jap 105 fuel).

Speak to Jus he did alot of reserch into the Fd Jap and Uk before he came across his UK FD.

I relisethat not every one can get hold of a UK car due to the low numbers sold but after seeing both R1/2 and Uk spec next to each other the Uk one wins all day.

Chris.

[Jus]

Originally posted by BNA_ELLIS
I think there is a case for japanese spec rx7 being better than uk spec. On this basis in uk you had one option, in Japan you had over 15 to choose from. The version in Japan that was most similar to uk spec was the type x model. Which was the same as uk model, except you had the option of either red or black leather interior /choice of normal sunroof or moonroof, climate control, 2+2, Bose hifi I am not sure if uk ones had this can't remember, only the main cat not the problematic pre-cat like uk cars, and more power.
Other than that it's a matter or choice as in Japan there were so much different options to choose from, but as far as comparison of spec the uk and the type x were the same but the type x was better if comparing options.

rgds

Brian

The UK model was FULLY loaded, which ment a tad more weight, extra's similar to the Jap X, Leather, Cruise, A/C, Sunroof, Non 2+2. In addition to the Jap X Model the UK spec also consisted of similar gear to that of the R1/R2, twin oil coolers, Front/Rear Strut Brace, Hard suspension Ect... All in all made the UK spec car a good all round purchase, one model consisting of many key items found on the various Jap models. A very well balanced package indeed.


Regards

Jus

[Dom]

looking on autotrader... aria motor company have a uk spec... whenever I've checked they've always seemed to be showing one or two...

Has anyone ever used them/heard any stories? I'd like a UK spec when I get one just to save on insurance (if it's THAT much different)...

http://www.ariamotorco.co.uk/

Dom

[Grizzly]

Without seeing the car It sounds a good deal, its always worth geting one with a fresh Engine fitted and History, thats somthing you never get with an Import.

Sounds Nice.

Do you know what Mods (engine) its had done?

Chris

[HPI_UK]

.

[Grizzly]

Ok. I just love talking to myself.

Why remove ya Post?

[bnaellis]

I think you are mistaken on some of your knowledge on Japanese car auctions. Jap car don't come with anymore ltd history than any uk car I don't know what makes you think that, but you are wrong. A lot of jap cars have history the ones that don't are sold a lot cheaper at the auctions.
I stated I think Jap are better on the basis of choice.
The uk had one rx7 and one spec, the equivalent model in japan had choice of colour of interior choice of sunroof climate control instead of just a/c 2+2 no pre-cat which caused premature engine failure and loads of turbo failure, and a host of other boost problems, front fogs and more power.
As far as the cars at auction, you do know if the car has been shelled, and who told you most auctions don't guarantee the mileage thats not so.I tell if you want to worry about dodgy mileage anywhere there is nor greater risk of that than in uk.
I posted on fduk forum the other week, I was at work with someone who saying he has a bmw 5 series he wanted the mileage clocked and the company he contacted told him they can't book him in for 6 weeks because the have so much work in during that period clocking cars.
I don't deny soem importers bringover crap yet some importers also bring over good examples.
I think people are misinformed about japanese car auctions, and there tends to be scaremongering among the misinformed.

Brian

[HPI_UK]

Brian u know your stuff, all my cars have mileage verification and come with service history booklets - Japanese auctions are very thorough and they state an unknown mileage if they feel the car doesn't have genuine mileage or speedo change, you also get all the equivalent MOT certs for each year with a complete car inspection with each section from clutch to gear box to engine etc being examined and a relevant comment given. Could show you on if u like. Its really quite amazing how much they do check.

Cheers

Ad.

[Grizzly]

?. Its an Auction. Japanies Auctions are no Diffrent to any other around the world, its to get rid of cars quick. I admit they may have the Milage on the Clock but in the UK we have things like HPI. You dont in Japan.

Auctions are Bought as Seen. This is why you need to know your Stuff when buying from them.

Man i do work for a Import place that is one of the largest in cheshire and honistly the Quality of his Low malage 1 owner cars is realy Bad.

Chris

P.s. U what? Clockers. Now how do you get to know them?

[HPI_UK]

Chris i feel you have no knowledge on thsi matter, In Japan the secondhand car market is very small and cars are a lot cheaper than here, they also have to under go very stringent tests which makes cars unviable to keep, thus they are sold and Exported to mainly New Zealand/Australia and England. The Japanese auction system also has very strict gradings and full descriptions of vehicles, they are inspected before auction and after auction ( after the auction by your agent to ensure all is ok ). You then have a contract with the auction house with the auction sheet they provide you with. In order to bid in Japan you have to have a Licence A these are limited and b they are VERY expensive. There are a lot of 1 owner cars with full history, bear in mind there is access to over 70,000 cars a week, all cars re-painted, accident damaged, parts replaced ( all panels ) are graded 0 or P gradings for damaged cars. Also highly modded cars are graded KAY, the system is far different to our medieval con amn auctions here in England. The Japanese are a very honest race and i have never had a problem as yet with their auction system, you just have to choose the right vehicles with the right grading/history to ensure a good car.

Cheers

Adam.

Oh and www.bimta.org Japanese HPI check!

[Grizzly]

Do you have a Guy there to check every car you buy?

Ok i hav'nt bought a car from japan, but i know a man who has, lots. He is a Buisness man he buys low milage cars that will sell well hear then tidys them up when they get to the Uk. Now this puts me right of the hole Jap thing.

You are right there are people out there who do import realy poor cars and tart them up for sale, i dont mean every one does it you may be one of the few quality Importers but there out there.

The Uk cars can be clocked as you say but this can be easily checked by old MOT's etc


Chris

[bnaellis]

Your mistaken again if you think car auctions are the same around the world. Car auctions in uk are nothing like cars auctions japan. Thinking they are all alike will explain some of your opinions in these post. You do not have private car sales in Japan like we do over here. Cars are sold via dealers or auctions. The normal mode of selling a car over here is autotrader exchange and mart etc. The normal mode in Japan is auctions. I think because you hear the word auction all of asudden you think of horror stories in uk concerning auctions. You can buy absolute crap in Japan the same as you can in any country some cars are well kept some are not, that is really down to the import company.
I can tell you from first hand experience that history and detailed info of the cars whether speedo has been replaced and what mileage it was replaced or if a mileage is suspect and cannot be confirmed. I have full info when I import a car. I got Japanese service history sitting upstairs right now.
regarding clockers read my post carefully again.

rgds
Brian

[HPI_UK]

Of course, i would be stupid not to after all. Thats what i pay them for.

All the inspection reports for each year state mileage like our MOTS.

Adam.

[HPI_UK]

Just to put my foot in it a do have a UK spec Supra. :D

[bnaellis]

If I buy a car in Japan I have someone inspect the car aside from the auction pictures / report I see. If i have them purchase the car and the find any issue with it not stated in auction details it's taken back to the auction house and I have my money intact still, though this has never happened.
As Hpi uk stated the Japanese are very honest people, and I have never had a issue with them or anything I have purchased.

Brian

[Grizzly]

BNA_ELLIS, can i ask you somthing, do you belive that every one buys the higher priced quality cars for sale in the UK? just becouse you might not there are people hear that do! thats why there are some not very nice Imports hear. They also leave them self open to clocking strait of the boat. I have no problem with legit Imports that have history and Proof of milage, but not all do thats my point.

Chris

[HPI_UK]

Chris thats true, a lot of low grade cars are sold in the UK, i just wouldn't buy a car without the auction sheet if i was looking. It was when i was searching for an import myself i noticed the amount of poor quality cars available and thus i started my own business.:D Just be careful who you buy off.

Ad.

[Jus]

The import business is great for giving the customer options, in turn price will be lowered because of the high numbers of car's, of the same model being available.

However, I'm not an importer nor would my first choice be to purchase a jap import from Japan! There are lot's of good examples here for sale right now in the UK, Jap or UK car's.

If the car from Japan is a real steal, consisting of lot's of aftermarket goddies then great. But personally I think the market is getting flooded with the Rx7, bringing the price too low, in my opinion.

They must be Jap imports here in the UK that have UK receipts/engine rebuilds etc... If not I would stray away, until you find the right one!

IMO

Regards...


Jus

[bnaellis]

Chris I agree with you. My main point was that the crap ones that come over here are not because the importers have been deceived into buying something they thought was better or because the auction house was not honest about the cars details.
Personally I would advise someone who is going to look at a jap car and they have any doubts about the car ask the importer for the auction sheet, cause if a car has 40,000 km on the auction sheet yet the dash board only shows 12,000 miles then obviously it's been clocked. If a dealer can't show you a auction sheet then I say if your unsure don't buy it.

rgds

Brian

[Grizzly]

Do you see where i am coming from? i see lots of poor cars and so you tend to think Umm would i spend thousends and months waiting for this car?

Chris

[bnaellis]

Yep, that's fair enough. Don't blame you really. Same as Adam really thats one of the main reasons I started my business also.
To give british public good examples. Thats how it started, but problem was that everyone jumped on the band wagon and became greedy getting the lower graded higher mileage for next to nothing and getting maximum earnings, while selling the public bad examples of good cars.

Brian

[Jus]

Bang ya furry dice in and everybody shall be happy!



Jus
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[bnaellis]

I'm not selling mark 1 cortina's lol.. (Bang ya furry dice in and everybody shall be happy!)


I'm up at 6am to go work so bon nuit gentlemen.

Brian

[Grizzly]

Jus u been smoking somthing u should'nt?

Chris :D

[Jus]

SNAP!

See you later Chris...

Cheers Brian.

Jus
:o

[Grizzly]

Ok, changing the subject slightly now i have a headache!

Is there a second hand Parts market in japan? kind of like E-Bay?

I am intrested in what happens to the realy Poor quality cars that no one wants? i presume they are Broken for parts?

Just Intrest?

Chris

P.S. Night! :o

[Squallai]

Well, there is a huge second hand parts market in Yahoo Japan, and the parts are really cheap!! Not all the sellers will ship to UK.
But you have to understand Japanese first of all.LOL

Angus

[Prof]

It must be old thread resurrection week ! :D

I though it was a :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:take at first with Blitzboy asking about buying his 1st 3rd gen - then I saw the date !