The Poor Mans Non-Sequential Setup

[Rixio]

This is the very illusive & difficult to find Simplified Poor Mans Non-Sequential Turbo Conversion How To
Please read the entire Thread before reaching for your spanner...

Tools needed:

1/4" Drive Ratchet

6" 1/4" Drive extension

10mm Deep well socket

10mm Open end wrench

11mm Deep well socket

12mm Deep well socket

Side wire cutters

Vise Grips

Razor Knife

Cable zip-ties

One 1/8" Plastic "T" vacum hose union

3ft. 3.5mm Silicone vacum hose

Several spare 10mm bolts

One Coat Hanger

Floor Jack

Step 1.

Remove the Air box/ or intake whichever applies. The idea is to clear the area above the "Y"pipe assembley.

[Rixio]

Step 2.

Remove the 3.5mm vacum hose that runs between the Charge relief valve (CRV) and the Lower intake manifold (LIM). Now with the Plastic "T" union splice the line from the CRV into the 3.5mm vacum line that runs to the backside of the blow off valve (BOV) Make sure that you zip tie all these in place to avoid any future problems with boost leaks.


(Pic 1)^^^


You may either plug the remaining nipple on the LIM where the line for the CRV used to be or just let it vent. I suggest that with this jerry-rigged version you plug it as I am not 100% sure that it would not affect something due to the solonoids that are still in place. In the future if you decide to go with the full non-sequential version and remove all the solonoids and vacum rack then I know for a fact that it is ok to just leave these nipples open and let them vent.

So here you see it plugged on the LIM side using some 3.5mm vacum hose a few zip-ties and a spare 10mm bolt.


(Pic 2)^^^

[Rixio]

Step 3.

Remove the two remaining 3.5mm vacum lines on the Charge control valve (CCV) and two on the "Y"pipe assembly. Use some new vacum hose and create a "bridge" off the Y pipe to essentially negate these two nipples as shown in the pic below. The lines from the CCV also need to be plugged using 3.5mm vacum hose and a spare bolt. You should plug it at both ends, At the valve itself and at the LIM. Again you need not plug the nipple at the LIM if you do the full version.

(Pic 1)^^^


Here is another image of this with the pipe out to. This is just for more clarification of the modification done to the "Y" pipe. Dont forget to plug the lines from the CCV as well. I did not get a pic of that.

(Pic 2)^^^

[Rixio]

Step 4.

Remove the black pressure tank that is mounted in front of the Upper intake manifold (UIM) This also means that you will remove the two vacum lines that are connected to it. Plug these lines with vacum hose and bolts.

(Pic 1)^^^


This is the tank I am talking about..

(Pic 2)^^^

[Rixio]

One of the lines off the pressure tank in the pic above was attached to a hard pipe. It is shown below plugged as it should now be.The other nipple that the pressure tank was connected to jets out of the drivers side of the lower Y pipe assembly. It points upward. Should be hard to miss. That line should also be plugged with some vacum hose and a bolt.

[Rixio]

Step 5.

Remove the two vacum lines connected to the Pre Control solinoid. The Pre control solinoid is mounted next to the wastgate solinoid on the front of the UIM. The Pre control solinoid is the one on the passenger side. Plug the lines on the hard pipe side . They can vent from the solinoid as it is not not being used at all.

[Rixio]

Step 6.

Jack up the passenger side of the car and crawl under the car to acces the Turbo control acctuator (TCA) It is held inplace by two 10mm studs. You will need to remove them with a 10mm open end wrench. After removing the two bolts you will need to remove a small "c" clip that holds the actuating rod onto the flapper door. There are also two 3/8 vacum lines that will need to be taken loose from the TCA.Once you have the TCA completely removed from the car take the coat hanger and wire the flapper door arm all the way towards the front of the car (open postion).

(Pic 1)^^^

Wire the flapper door arm as shown in the two pics below.

(Pic 2&3)^^^

[Rixio]

Step 7.

Last one

Plug the remaining two lines that came of the TCA with 1/4" bolts and some zipties

[Rixio]

After you have that all set reinstall the intake and check all your Intercooler couplers to make sure that they are nice and snug. Thats it. You should be now getting nice solid boost with no transitions whatsoever. If you are experiencein boost spikes still I suggest getting a nice manual boost controller. If you are not getting full boost the first place I suggest looking is the Intercooler couplers. If you are still using stock couplers and worm driven clamps I highly suggest replacing them asap with silicone couplers and "T" bolt clamps.


Good luck:cheers


N.B -

This "How To" is FromNo-Pistons (http://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38640&hl=non-sequential&st=0) Carry out this modification at your own risk. Mazdarotaryclub & Myself will not be held accountable for any mistakes made resulting in injury or problems to vehicles as a direct result of this modification. There is also extra info & follow up info on the rest of the thread so please be sure to check it...


Rixio :Thumbs-up

[strange_days_uk]

Shouldn't you be asleep in bed ??

Are you on the MRC moderator nightshift ??

[Rixio]

Iv been after this for ages now since iv got my engine in bits, so hopefully will have it all finished off by Monday/Tuesday when my bits arrive :)

& yes im on MRC night watch :p

[strange_days_uk]

http://www.tvfetish.net/TVGC_DadsArmy01.jpg

[Mr_7]

Nice one rixo so you finally found it then! can you let me know the outcome on yours and whether you recomend it cheers buddy

[tbore]

I am doing this non sequential setup now, does anybody know how good it works
?. Cheers

[arrouk]

hi mate,
you wont make any more power by doing this but it will stop most if not all boost issues from the twins and IMO you get MUCH smoother power delivery and better fuel economy.
i think it depends on the condition of your turbos but most people see full boost around 3500RPM.
Please don't forget that adjustments are required to the map to be safe and to run correctly, i think that Carl Haywood does a package including the conversion and remap.
HTH

matt

[arrouk]

Removed as double post

[tbore]

hi mate,
you wont make any more power by doing this but it will stop most if not all boost issues from the twins and IMO you get MUCH smoother power delivery and better fuel economy.
i think it depends on the condition of your turbos but most people see full boost around 3500RPM.
Please don't forget that adjustments are required to the map to be safe and to run correctly, i think that Carl Haywood does a package including the conversion and remap.
HTH

matt

Thanks mate:Thumbs-up

[shaggy]

I'm thinking of doing this for a bit, is it easily reversible?

[Rixio]

Yep :)

Rixio :Thumbs-up

[davehg]

all you have to do is start from the last step and work towards the first step :Hammer

[tbore]

I'm thinking of doing this for a bit, is it easily reversible?

It does work mate, i now now have smooth boost all the way:burnout

[shaggy]

Good good, thats what i like to hear. Heard somwhere that you had to enlarge your wastegate but can't be arsed so thats sorted.

[rico2k_uk]

just finished doing this.. anyone notice any new noises when starting? i only briefly turned the car over as still on axel stands and filling up the coolant..... seemed to get a clicking noise from the tubby area.. going to recheck the coat hanger to see if that is loose when it stops raining~!

[rico2k_uk]

well, i have completed this, and after redoing it again am getting boost! woo hoo! only 0.5 tho. :(

also my bov no longer seems to be running (can hear it just but could be the remaining recirc?) any clues?

so defo need to do the full job :(

[DC-TYPER]

what are the advantages/disadvantages of this setup then?

[rico2k_uk]

less boost problems, and more woosh! :D

[DC-TYPER]

in english please, the only woosh i know is a woosh wotsit lol

[ssn11]

A run twin Hybrid turbos after uping the boost blow of few hoses all sorted now but some times dont come on boost would this setup sort it out or at least help it???

[Mims]

What turbos are you running and what boost are you running them at? If your having problems with the sequential set-up

A) You can go Non-Seq, which effectively makes your a car single turbo
B) Get yourself a new uprated solenoid pack and keep it seq twins

[Carl]

We make a bracket for holding the flap in the manifold open,plus you do not need to take off the charge relief valve or vacuum tank.
For best results it pays to use a power FC ecu and tune the car to suit for which you don't need an after market boost controller.
Regards
Carl

[Carl]

Good to see that you are sorting the car now Rixio.
Did you get that broken stud off that you broke when trying to remove the Y pipe?(Which does not need removing for the conversion)
Regards
Carl

[dryvern]

This has peaked my curiosity.
I am wondering if this non sequential process is likely or not to balance out the output of my twins - fully rebuilt 2001 turbos.

The problem I have is my first turbo on low boost produces around 6.5 bar the second 9.5 bar. On high boost the first turbo reaches for 8.5 bar but the second then goes to 1.1.
Having recently had to rebuild I really do not wish to go over 1bar, on low the first turbo weakness is annoying, especially after watching walet shrink drastically tuning & retuning.

I guess they would run nonsequential at their natural boost. I.e. no balance on output.

Funny thing though before all this tuning madness started (with a flutter on the second turbo on my old origional 1993 turbos) is that the car ran 299 wbhp & very well with no mods (car being as I got it, a standard '93 type R Jap import) i.e. standard o.8 bar on both. In fixing the flutter 1/2 a year after getting it, the pipe/nest set up was ''set back to how it should be..correct, safe'' although unchanged by me it aparently had bypassed - a solenoid??
Anyway the result was I dropped 50bhp & got noticably slow. 6 weeks after the quickly arranged fuel & power FC upgrade the engine blew (still being under the origional power)...hindsight a thankfully found faulty air sensor.

The point of this funny thing....boost pipe & rats nest configuration does have an effect & I still wonder that the Japs perhaps know a lot more about this than us. Certainly more than me.

Not all understand my liking twins over single (due to how well the FD origionally ran, which perhaps I have lost the feeling of down the tuning road...a bit). Ideally I would like an even boost between 0.9 & 1 bar with my set up....I guess we cannot have all we want. An annoying chase game....oh well.

This idea though intreagues me...perhaps enough...you can see why.

[DR SCHNITZEL]

non sequential has its ups and down, you will have a really sluggish car around town unless your past 4000rpm

sequential is very scary if your on the limit in a corner and then the 2nd turbo kicks in. it can really upset the balance of the car. and nearly throw you off a motorway bridge at 60mph

[DR SCHNITZEL]

9.5 bar is alot i was making 350fwhp at .8 bar

[BlitzBoy]

sequential is very scary if your on the limit in a corner and then the 2nd turbo kicks in. it can really upset the balance of the car. and nearly throw you off a motorway bridge at 60mph

Disagree means you are not in the correct gear for the corner if you are driving on the limit,

if you are driving fast around a corner and in a high gear and low rpm you are not driving the car fast correctly, you should be in a lower gear using higher rpm. (You will be well past the transition point of the second turbo as well)

[dryvern]

Yep, it's like keeping a large turbo in it's boost range of RPM. Know where your power sits.

[needham]

hi guys wondered if u can help me out, i just finished changing to non seq and have no boost, the gague reads minus but stops at 0 and seem to have light blue puffs of smoke when i blip the throttle:( not sure whats goin on, but have one question the pre control solinoid is that on the right or the left,,,,

my car has the following setup
polished ports ( 4k on new engine and standard new turbos)
apexi and remap
exhaust.



not sure if u guys can help me but all tries would be greatful lol

[interloper393]

make sure you have non-seq setup on the apexi :) sounds like the hoses are maybe on the wrong bits?

[BlitzBoy]

Sounds like the wastegate door is stuck open so check actuator arm and hoses as said.
lol there is nothing to change on the Apexi to say "hi I am no sequential" lol
There is a function tick box enabling the Seqential operation of the solenoids but unticking this wont cause the non sequential operation not to work lol
It will need remapping to make non seq to work effectively

[needham]

cheers mate, went to reworxs today to buy loads of solinoids and silicone hosing to redo the rats nest so just gonna put it back and do the nest at the same time, oh and the injectors wha haa haa lol lol

[Philo]

I am finding it hard justifying using the rex on long journeys to my good lady who pays for half the petrol. We only managed 17.5 mpg in my standard car on the last trip.

Having done a little reading I have been considering a non-sequential turbo conversion.

But how much cheaper is it? What sort of mpg are those of you who can drive up to 4000 rpm without using turbos getting?

How far do I have do drive before the conversion pays for itself?

[cyman]

I am finding it hard justifying using the rex on long journeys to my good lady who pays for half the petrol. We only managed 17.5 mpg in my standard car on the last trip.

Having done a little reading I have been considering a non-sequential turbo conversion.

But how much cheaper is it? What sort of mpg are those of you who can drive up to 4000 rpm without using turbos getting?

How far do I have do drive before the conversion pays for itself?

i am non sequential and am def get low to mid 20's mpg and that is an average of all kinds of driving. my turbos come on strong from around 3500rpm and running around town or short trips off turbo is a nice smooth drive just like any other car but when you hit the loud peddle it goes like a rocket i am runnin .75 bar with 369 fwhp or 309bhp at the wheels.

si

[BlitzBoy]

How far do I have do drive before the conversion pays for itself?

you may get an extra 2-3 miles a gallon, therefore you might get an extra 20 miles per tank, so you save £5 on every fill up, depends how ofthen you fill up?, say once a week so £20 a month, £240 a year, so if you a got a tuner to do it it will cost you around £300 or do it yourself if you are able. So it will take a year, IMO not worth it in losing the low down power advantage and a hot hatch beating you around town

[cyman]

you may get an extra 2-3 miles a gallon, therefore you might get an extra 20 miles per tank, so you save £5 on every fill up, depends how ofthen you fill up?, say once a week so £20 a month, £240 a year, so if you a got a tuner to do it it will cost you around £300 or do it yourself if you are able. So it will take a year, IMO not worth it in losing the low down power advantage and a hot hatch beating you around town

from my personal experience driving round town is fine a hot hatch doesnt stand a chance (and would you want to race one around a town anyway????). the actual increase in smooth driving before the turbos come in makes for a very nice drive and if your car is setup right as soon as you put your foot down it pulls, it hits 3k pulls harder, hits 3500k goes like a rocket. considering normal revs for driving round town is around 3k for a nice smooth ride the power is just waiting for you.

and as far as money saving is concerned i thought a tank holds around 15 1/2 gallons if you go on filling up with 14 gallons on a normal fill up if you get 2-3 miles a gallon better fuel economy then that means 28-42 miles more per fill up or for the sake of argument closer to £7- £10 saving per fill up so if its a fill up a week thats £364-£540 saving a year.

yes i may be biased because i have non seq setup and am extremly happy with it with petrol going up all the time the extra savings in a year are just a bonus i love the nice gentle cruising capability off turbo(if its a sunny sunday caught in the traffic :chat ) with the strong way the turbos kick in whenever you fancy putting the boot in (for when you overtake all of them :Laugh )

si

[BlitzBoy]

lol all this talk about saving money on fuel, guys we own a mini supercar!!!! if you want to save money on fuel you are in the wrong car!! do what a lot a people do and buy your self a £500 cheap runaround if you do loads of miles.
PS A seq vs a non seq, the seq will be faster in most scenarios if they met each other on the road

[cyman]

lol all this talk about saving money on fuel, guys we own a mini supercar!!!! if you want to save money on fuel you are in the wrong car!! do what a lot a people do and buy your self a £500 cheap runaround if you do loads of miles.
PS A seq vs a non seq, the seq will be faster in most scenarios if they met each other on the road

like i said for me the fact that i save fuel is a bonus.

the sweeping statement about sequential being faster than non sequential is a bit :Hammer :Hammer all car performance is relative if you have a good car with a good driver its going to be faster than a good car with a not very good driver. the only time i can think of that a non sequential maybe a bit faster is in a standing start and that is def down to the driver. cant think of any rx7 owner out on a bit of a blast is gonna let the revs drop below 3500k anytime and its below that where the seq has the only advantage. unles you still want to race hot hatches around town in a 30 limit :rollin :rollin :rollin

[BlitzBoy]

this discussion is so boring each to his own anyway , Mazda knew what they were doing when the designed the FD3s as seq as did Toyota with the seq Twin turbo supra , the fastest twin in this country was seq with a 12 second dead, the fastest twin in the US is seq at 10.9, a seq twin turbo will hit peak boost quicker then then a non seq. Round a circuit with the same driver ability the seq will always win as it will always be on boost coming out of slow corners.
All down to preference at the end of the day, enjoy your non seqs boys

[interloper393]

blitzboy u drive a car with a big turbo, so your in the same boat as a car running non-seq :D same pro/cons but with a hell of alot more power :yes

[BlitzBoy]

yes but mines not a daily driver (weekends mostly for Drag) but I do miss my original seq setup with that nice and wide power band starting nice and low ideal street point to point car

[cyman]

this discussion is so boring each to his own anyway , Mazda knew what they were doing when the designed the FD3s as seq as did Toyota with the seq Twin turbo supra , the fastest twin in this country was seq with a 12 second dead, the fastest twin in the US is seq at 10.9, a seq twin turbo will hit peak boost quicker then then a non seq. Round a circuit with the same driver ability the seq will always win as it will always be on boost coming out of slow corners.
All down to preference at the end of the day, enjoy your non seqs boys

:rollin :rollin :rollin if the discussion is so boring why try to justify yourself.

i am a non sequential owner if you tell me non sequential isnt very good i am going to defend it because i disagree with you :)

i agree that mazda knew what they were doing when they deigned this twin turbo setup but you have to remember that these cars arent new anymore some are 15 years old and one of the reliability issues with them is the sequential turbo setup. from the posts on the rx7 forums the rats nest and servo's can be a real headache and if you have to take it to a specialist to get sorted not very cheap to put right.

your trying to make the same old arguement.. i agreed with you that a sequential will always be quicker off the mark (but not by much, you are talking tenths of seconds from standstill up to 30mph or so)the whole track argument doesnt hold my non seq setup starts to spin from 3k by 4k you are at nearly full boost. show me a driver who is on a track letting the revs drop so low as to need a turbo from 2k and i will show you someone who should stick to the roads on a sunday and not be on the track.

i am used to high revving motorcycles with small power bands and honda vtecs. the honda vtec has very little torque but high peak power in a small power band so how come it beats larger engined more torquy hot hatches round a track.....oh that will be because if you are on a track you drive to keep the car where the power is. you dont drive a car that revs to nearly 8k with 4k of power band in fifth at 2k revs.(unless its raining and you are using the lower torque to pull you out of corners without spinning up)

like you said horses for courses. with better reliability and better peak power with nice off turbo cruising at motorway speeds it suits me just fine and from driving both seq and having a good setup non seq i would never go back.

just out of interest is there anyone who has gone to non sequential that is unhappy with it and prefers the sequential setup?????

[interloper393]

hehe must admit it is a great setup.. i only went non-seq because my black box was buggered :S

[BlitzBoy]

:

like you said horses for courses. with better reliability and better peak power

A non seq will give the same peak power as seq, take it from me as I have mapped many seq and non seq FDs.

Quick question, on a motorway, if you are rolling at 60 mph in top gear one guy in a seq FD and one guy in a non seq, who do you think is gonna pull off quicker????:Hammer :D

[ro284]

Quick question, on a motorway, if you are rolling at 60 mph in top gear one guy in a seq FD and one guy in a non seq, who do you think is gonna pull off quicker????
Well i'd like to know, i think this is an interesting thread, i'm pretty sure cyman has a few mods, if i keep mine i will have very similar mods to cyman, except mine will stay sequential! iv'e been hoping a comparison thread like this would come along for ages!
Bob

[BlitzBoy]

I would put my money on the seq FD as it will have more torque\hp and response from 3K to 5Krpm.

[cyman]

I would put my money on the seq FD as it will have more torque\hp and response from 3K to 5Krpm.


explain to me how a sequential is going to have more torque than a non seq between 3-5k.

and as far as mods are concerned i have the mods reccomended on various forums to get the most out of non sequential setup. the engine has a streetport, feed downpipe, silenced de cat, and stainless system and an apexi ecu. standard fueling,pipework and intercooler. i get no lag just a really smooth power delivery with a real kick from 3k that just gets better as the revs rise.

the whole midrange thing doesnt cut it. sequential first turbo comes in at 2k second comes in at 4500 staggering the power delivery to make it pull better from low down and offer a more linear power delivery non sequential brings both turbos in together from 3-3.5k bringing peak boost before the 2nd turbo on a sequential is even spooling thats why when a non sequential comes on turbo the pull feels stronger than when a seq 2nd turbo comes on because you are getting more of the engines higher power lower in the midrange. which is why the only advantage of sequential is off the mark upto around 30mph before the non sequential gets the power.

take a look at my power delivery in this thread http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47519 you will see that i only get 60bhp at 2500k but within 1400rpm it has jumped upto 160bhp as the turbos spool then climbs right upto the peak delivery with the top of the torque from 4k until it drops off slightly at 6k but holds pretty well til redline.

my argument with the whole sequential non sequential turbo is not one where i will blatently say sequential is rubbish because its not if you want to be on the turbo from lower down then it is spot on and i cant fault it. but if someone wants to try to argue that non sequential is not worth doing then they need to get out more and not be so narrow minded. my non seq setup (as i have said before)is perfect for me with no flaws. i can drive below 3k off turbo with nearly 100bhp and nice torque which makes for very nice cruising and town driving and when i put my foot down i get a much stronger push in my seat than i ever did driving a sequential, my torque and power are higher lower in the midrange which makes for a perfect trackday car as i can let the revs drop right down to 3500k if i want and still get instant punch out of a corner as i will be on full boost (not that i ever do let the revs drop that low on a track unless its raining :) )

lets face it the first thing serious fd3 owners do as soon as they have the money is put a single on it if either a seq or non seq twin was best everyone would be putting them on and if everyone wanted smooth low down power we would all be driving round in standard rex's :Laugh :Laugh :Laugh

[cyman]

Well i'd like to know, i think this is an interesting thread, i'm pretty sure cyman has a few mods, if i keep mine i will have very similar mods to cyman, except mine will stay sequential! iv'e been hoping a comparison thread like this would come along for ages!
Bob

ro284 i am in dorset aswell if you want to see first hand how it goes just let me know and i will take you out in it.

also blitz is a top gear 60mph foot down very relevant in real world driving??? if im cruising i'm not bothered bout gunning it if im over taking or giving it some i wont be in fifth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[interloper393]

the 2nd tubby kicks in at 4.5kish, the non-seq both kick in at 3.5k, doubt there be any difference lol

Im just stiring my big wooden spoon :)
I was looking at a few maps when i had mine done, seq was more a smooth gradual curve, non-seq was more straight up/shape curve, mines running 350atfhp, doubt that would make much difference.

[cyman]

the 2nd tubby kicks in at 4.5kish, the non-seq both kick in at 3.5k, doubt there be any difference lol

Im just stiring my big wooden spoon :)
I was looking at a few maps when i had mine done, seq was more a smooth gradual curve, non-seq was more straight up/shape curve, mines running 350atfhp, doubt that would make much difference.

yeah i had a look at a few maps aswell and like you said the sequential was more gradual and the non seq was steeper but from around 3-3.5k to 4.5k-5k gives more power and torque. ours are pretty close in bhp mine is 308 whp and 370 fwhp loads of fun :Laugh :Laugh :Laugh

[interloper393]

hehe yup i love mine either way, we`ve just went the cheap ass way to a single lol

[BlitzBoy]

lol a seq will have the same peak power as the non seq if both have the same mods, they will both have the same VE, you can not compare dyno graphs unles both cars have the same mods and boost levels.
ps the highest powered stock seq twins in this country produced 389@wheels.
hell I have seen a seq standard spec with nothing more then an Apexi ECU Exhaust and induction kit get 320rwhp, so you guys saying a non seq will yeild more peak power is simply untrue, a seq and non seq will both yield the same peak power, they both have the same efficency map both will push the same volume of air and the same boost levels

[interloper393]

lol a seq will have the same peak power as the non seq if both have the same mods, they will both have the same VE, you can not compare dyno graphs unles both cars have the same mods and boost levels.
ps the highest powered stock seq twins in this country produced 389@wheels.
hell I have seen a seq standard spec with nothing more then an Apexi ECU Exhaust and induction kit get 320rwhp, so you guys saying a non seq will yeild more peak power is simply untrue, a seq and non seq will both yield the same peak power, they both have the same efficency map both will push the same volume of air and the same boost levels


lol so your saying that either or, there both the same :P

[BlitzBoy]

At peak power yes lol
BUt lets get back to the argument about seq being better low down hahahhaha

[interloper393]

hehe im still stiring :yes

[Carl]

HP figures on dyno's are a real waste of time,it is much more important what the car feels like to drive,if a person is really happy with their setup that suits them then that is most important.
I don't believe many of the HP figures that people get either,and has been known that certain dyno's have been setup wrongly in the past giving very spurious figures,with cars subsequently running up the drag strip with very poor results pretty well proving the figures can't have been any where near right.
As for the debate with twins being sequential or non,It will go on forever,but the people who seem to promote sequential all of the time are the ones who don't even drive FD's with twins any more having gone single,seems that they don't really put their money where their mouth is. very strange.
Regards
Carl

[interloper393]

each to there own, but i guess what ever setup your cars running, its gunna be the best setup to you lol.. so debate over.. non-seq is the best :D

[BlitzBoy]

but Carl I do drive FD with twins , I may not own a seq anymore but I do drive a friends FD who have done work on thats seq.
So I dont need to put my money where my mouth is lol
So Carl whats the quickest non seq Twin that you have built and mapped that has gone up the strip, any times?

[cyman]

lol a seq will have the same peak power as the non seq if both have the same mods, they will both have the same VE, you can not compare dyno graphs unles both cars have the same mods and boost levels.
ps the highest powered stock seq twins in this country produced 389@wheels.
hell I have seen a seq standard spec with nothing more then an Apexi ECU Exhaust and induction kit get 320rwhp, so you guys saying a non seq will yeild more peak power is simply untrue, a seq and non seq will both yield the same peak power, they both have the same efficency map both will push the same volume of air and the same boost levels

mate you seem to be holding on to something that hasnt been said i never said that non seq make more power i said that it makes better peak power. ie in real world terms (in the midrange)where i need the power it is better than a sequencial.

you seem to be running out of arguments and have completly dismissed my post explaining why for me the non sequential is better. it is based on facts and figures that i have seen for both and on the reliability factor of a 15 year old design.

i think your argument is running out of steam :D :D :D :D oops sorry like you said earlier you prefer sequential so you can race hot hatches from standstill round town :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

[Carl]

but Carl I do drive FD with twins , I may not own a seq anymore but I do drive a friends FD who have done work on thats seq.
So I dont need to put my money where my mouth is lol
So Carl whats the quickest non seq Twin that you have built and mapped that has gone up the strip, any times?

One of my customers has been running regular 12.4 seconds,and consistently too with no water injection or even a big intercooler.
Regards
Carl

[Carl]

but Carl I do drive FD with twins , I may not own a seq anymore but I do drive a friends FD who have done work on thats seq.
So I dont need to put my money where my mouth is lol
So Carl whats the quickest non seq Twin that you have built and mapped that has gone up the strip, any times?

You don't own one Mark.
Regards
Carl

[BlitzBoy]

really tell me something I dont know hahahaha :rollin

[Carl]

really tell me something I dont know hahahaha :rollin

So not really putting your money where your mouth is then!:Nono! :Hammer
LOL:chat
Carl

[goldk28611]

I've just done this mod (a BIG thanks to John_Hudson who came down to give me a hand) and everything is fine so far expect one thing....

When putting my foot down the boost starts raising very nice from about 3.5Kish but then overboosts to 1.05bar (according to the Apexi commander looks about 1.1 on Defi guage) then it cuts on me - like a fuel cut amd boost drops and repeats - i'm getting very little det and injectors are only seeing 80%. We've changed the seetting on the Apexi-commander too for the setup and checked all work and its ine.

Running 96 FD with uprated FMIC/RAD/Blitz D/V and Apexi power FC + Commander

anyone got any suggestinos on a shot term solution until i get this done the full conversion in a few weeks??

Thinking on a boost controller but am going away to Nurbugring on Thursday and dont have too much time :S lol (not going to be driveing it hard but dont want any cuts) so are there any settings i can change with the PFC Comm' or will even an apexi boost control solinoid work as can get one tonight...
???

[goldk28611]

Morning Bump!! :D

Any suggestions at all?!? finish work in 3hrs and want to work on it again today...

Just to add to the above -

The car was re-mapped (before conv') at .8bar by WGT last week.

[arrouk]

it sounds like you have no boost control, check the two solenoids at the front of the uim.
the feed to them and the pipes coming from them.

matt

[cyman]

if you now have the non seq setup but you had the map and apexi setup for seq i think you have to get the map/apexi resetup for the non seq setup. this may have nothing to do with it but worth mentioning

[danny_m94]

i just wanted to let any1 that aint already realised when doing this mod or plaining to do so the guide mentions removing pipes from the pre control solenoid it mentions the location onthe front of the uim but says it is the passenger side solenoid . I may be wrong but this guide is based on an left hand drive car so its the drivers side on jap and uk spec cars. some1 please correct me if im wrong
Danny

[Lightning_Dynamics]

Iv just notice this threads recent activity and i agree with Mark. Seq is better theres no doubt about it.

We've owned various FD's with twins, singles and uprated twins at the same time. A car running twins in seq form (running properly) is so much more rewarding than driving non-seq or single.

Comparing twins in seq form, to a small single/non-seq, jumping in one straight into another, the twins will always be the one that feels quicker around town.

The only reason people change from seq to non-seq is either:
Boost problems caused by the stock solenoids (Troubleshooting doesn't have to be expensive or tiresome if you do it properly by ditching the stock rats nest)
Fuel Economy (Your driving the wrong car)
Or they prefer the non-seq power band due to the lack of the 4.5k 2nd turbo kick (Because they cant drive:Giggle)

Someone mentioned that most people opt to go single. Yes purely down to the horsepower factor.

However people have started realising that staying twins by getting uprated ones is the way forward. I know I have owned all variants. Those who have been in my car have all said the same, with 2 of them now driving uprated twins in seq form.:wiggle

In no way am I saying twins are without fault. Yes they give off plenty of heat and yes they have common boost issues but when its right its right!:driving

[danny_m94]

i have to agree i went non sequential for a week wasnt a big fan put my car back at the same time as new downpipe and im in love. Currently watching the minutes tick away till i can finish work and drive her again.
:3gears-lh

[pearl_rex]

ive jsut done this and have a huge boost leak from somewhere??? ive checked and double checked all the hard pipe connections but cant seem to fathom it out!? :(

[pearl_rex]

problem sorted out now, and i can honestly say im never ever going back to sequential!!!!! ive never felt anything like it when you plant the noisy pedal!! :D

[fly]

Interesting thread, ive always been a fan of sequential turbos and on all of my FD's i have gone to great pains to make sure they work properly. If there are no boost problems the transition between and first and second turbo will be almost seamless.

[Looney]

Sorry to dig up an old thread. I've just done this due to having problems with the standard set up. Everything seems fine but I seem to be only seeing 5psi boost max at the moment.

I can't find a boost leak any where, and a few peeps have had a gander too, and are a little puzzled too.

I've gone the full hog with minimal solonoid option. Only solonoids that are still running hoses, are the wastegate control and purge solonoid. Turbo control flap wired open, and actuator flap rigged open and actuator hose plugged.

Waste gate controller solonoid top connector is hosed to the wastegate, and the bottom is venting to atmosphere. The only thing I am ot sure about is which way the vaccum pulls on the 2 wastegate nipples. I presume the pull is from the hose that connects to the turbo body (or turbo housing bracket).

I am going to double check the y pipe as I am not too sure if I missed a nipple under the CRV. Will post back if I have and feel like an utter pleb!! lol.

If anyone that has boost issues since doing the non seq conversion, and then found the fault, can you please post up, so far I know there are at least 3 of you that have posted in this thread with similar boost issues! Would be most grateful!!!! :)

[arrouk]

have you remembered to put the pills back into the vacuum hose to the waste gate solenoid?

hth
matt

[Looney]

just checked the y pipe and this was something I had sorted whilst on the job as it was common sense to plug them together. Phew, but still don't know whats going on with it...lol

[Looney]

not checked the pills tbh. I'll double check they are still there... you're on about the hose from the wastegate to the solonoid?

[SmbFD3S]

You haven't replace the hose tho have you Len so they should still be there....

5 psi is wastegate spring pressure isn't it? Just sounds like the solenoids not controlling the wastegate to me :/

[Looney]

You got a spare wastegate controller? You watch that was the last bugger to have failed and still causing problems...

No I haven't changed the hose iirc, but worth double checking just in case.

Just checked on one of my diags of the turbos, the flow would be from solonoid to wastegate, to turbo housing. So would suggest that I have a blocked pipe, or solonoid is stuck shut.

Anyone got a spare wastegate control solonoid I can borrow to check it with?

I'll double check the hose between the solonoid and wg tomorrow to make sure it aint blocked.

[SmbFD3S]

Well assuming the turbo pre-control solenoid is the same just swap them over mate and see what happens as you dont use that one on the non-seq setup i dont think ?

[Looney]

yeah I'll give that a try see what happens. I forget that about most of the solonoids, I am used to follow by color, as they are marked to make sure the correct plug goes to the correct solonoid on the standard setup.

[dryvern]

Hi mate. Sorry things are still awry. Not my speciallity this. Does sound like the plumbing is not flowing right (way wired or dodgy link I wouldnt know), but I guess someone who's done NSq. has checked (1st idea..i.e. something perhaps needs plumbing different or removing??).

I can give (for you non gratis) the solenoid if you wish to try...better know what it looks like though! lol.

[Looney]

lol. Ok I found out why it wasn't producing full boost. A bit embarrasing really, I had checked the link positioning of the wastegate/actuator, and it always seemed to return to closed. I decided to spray the actuator with plenty of WD40, but not too much to cause a fire, and hey presto! It works!

So for anyone else thinking of doing the conversion due to problems, make sure the wastegate and actuator is not sticking like it had been doing on mine first! All happy now, although I think I may be best getting a boost control put on, as the factory set up is ok but not 100% perfect for the non-sequential.

I have found through lots of study the factory boost set up works like this:

Actuator works on a pressure system, more pressure in the actuator means more open the wastegate is. Less pressure keeps it more closed. The ECU has a preset map, where the wastegate solonoid pulses open to allow pressure to drop in the w/g actuator to keep the boost pressure up, and opens it up depending where in the rev range you are at.

The two solonoids bolted to the front of the UIM are the same, as well as the purge solonoid, thats bolted on its own behind the alternator near the nest.

I do kinda miss the low down boost, but then I now have more normal car drivablilty around town, yet still have the fun driving out of town! Trust me its made a nice difference around town as before I could barely press the throttle to pull out of junctions with out lighting up the rears or drifting out. lol.

[SmbFD3S]

I did tell you it was wastegate related lol :D

......

I do kinda miss the low down boost, but then I now have more normal car drivablilty around town, yet still have the fun driving out of town! Trust me its made a nice difference around town as before I could barely press the throttle to pull out of junctions with out lighting up the rears or drifting out. lol.

Thats cos you're stamping on the loud pedal too much Mr Loon lol

[Looney]

This is what I based my non-sequential conversion on:

Taken from this page: http://www.fd3s.net/non-sequential.html

You can convert to non-seq without taking the turbo off by simply disconnecting 95% of the control system and wiring the precontrol stuff fully open or closed (ie. deactivate everything but primary wastegate.
This gives you 95% of the non-seq total mod but still let you go back to seq with no sweat. Lets you get a feel for how it works and responds and if you do not like it you can go back to stock. main advantange for most of us of non-seq is simple operation and reliability - plus drasticly reduced cracking of the exhaust side turbo houseing due to constant heat cycling of of seq control. Turbo control becomes 1000% simpler to troubleshoot to the level that even I, after lots of study etc can do it myself. There are only a few shop in the us that really understand the seq system and can keep it working right. If you do not live near one of them then you have some tough choices to make. If your seq system is working OK now, leave it alone till you have trouble.

My conversion has elimnated all the rats nest completely. I am not using any of the solonoids, bar one to aid with wastegate control. Fuel pressure regulator is plugged into the UIM with a clamp to ensure it does not slide off. I still have one emissions pipe connected which is part of the blue coloured pipes on the diagrams floating around the net that connects to the front air inlet behind the filter.

So far so good!

[Looney]

I did tell you it was wastegate related lol :D



Thats cos you're stamping on the loud pedal too much Mr Loon lol


lol If I measured the amount of throttle I was using when I first had the car on the road, it would be 0-4mm at best to pull off nicely!! lol Mind you I need new tyres! lol

[Bobbit]

OK so i'm tempted to try this out, seems fairly straight forward to me, is there anything to look out for/tricky with this?

[Looney]

Nothing really to look out for. Just try and not bodge the vaccum pipes like I have. lol. Mind my bodge on them is only temp untill I can get round to ordering some decent hoses to replace it all with. Also looking at having a mechanical boost valve so I can make the factory boost control redundant. Nothing wrong with the factory, but its a set map, so still dips in around 4500rpm.

Recommend you use an old wire clothes hanger to wire open the secondary turbo control flap, and also the pre control flap next to it (both under the car), as it looks better and is sturdier.

[g20wel]

i done this to my car today i ran it and i have to say i hated it going back to sequential tomorrow

[g20wel]

removed due to double post

[Dansrx7]

Have just finished doing this conversion and have to say it's works very well I had a really bad boost problem after doing this have really good boost now

[Pantera Chris]

Very interesting debate. Coming from a 300bhp ball bearing turbo'ed 200sx to a FD3s, personally I couldn't believe how much of a kick in the back you got off the line and between gears. The 200sx is faster when it gets going (full boost by about 3.5k) but the responsiveness of the FD lower down the rev range can not be matched. Ill definitely be staying sequential so I get the best of both worlds. Like people have said, unless you're on a track, you cant use the full power on most British roads as its too busy so I don't see the point. My 200sx only ever sees full boost for a split second then im braking again unless its on a track or its Christmas day morning!!!

[cr33ch]

i can see this setup being perfect for drifters though. im a new FD owner (coming from a BDC ready drift 200sx) i think this setup will be great for me but i do see the other side of the argument

[leefitz]

hey, im sorta in a panic here. i completed the setup showen here but since iv done it all i now have no boost at all and teh oil pressure never moves above normal. i have looked at all the joints 3 times over but still cant see any leaks. where else could i look for this or what have i done wrong maybe? is there any pipes that should be left open to atmospher or should everything be pluged?? the cars due out to a drift on sunday so really need her to get going any help would be great, cheers

[leefitz]

sorry, being thick. didnt remove the vacume hose from the lower inlet manifold to the charge controle valve.

[a.tapos]

I prefer the feel of a tuned twin but for reliability and simplicity if you plan on blowing it up alot the full non sequential has alot less to go wrong or break
so its gonig to be whether you like meat well done or raw for most people
Just personal preference.