Could I build a rotary 200sx?

[dandan]

Hi all,

For some reason i've been mulling over some very odd ideas lately, but i quite like this one so I thought I would share it with you to see if there are any completely watertight reasons why this wouldn't work that I haven't spotted.

I may soon be getting a little runaround, and was thinking s13 200sx, cos they are cheap, but still quite fun and also the kind of car I should be able to work on myself. The only big problem with this is I know next to nothing about piston engines, but quite a lot about rotaries, but rotaries are expensive to run which is why I need a runaround in the first place, but i dont know about piston engines so i'd like a rotary runaround but rotaries are expensive to run which is why i need a runaround... ad infinitum

Anyhow, this got me thinking, when I am in a financial position to spend ludicrous amounts of money on a car again (a year or two I should think) it will definately be rotary, but why should it be rx7 or cosmo shaped? I've always liked to be different, so why not try something interesting, and stick a rotary in something else?

Obviously it has been done on many occasions with many different cars, but has anyone done an s13? or s14 for that matter? I know an rb26 would be a more obvious swap, but the whole point is to make it rotary, cos I love 'em so much!

It's front engine, rear wheel drive, probably quite lightweight I would guess, and seeing as they have been pushed to well over 500 hp in the past, they should be able to cope with a powerful 13b.

Here's how i see it, in my cotton wool, rose tinted world:
Rip out engine and box from s13, make mounts for 13b, shove it in, make adaptor from s13 prop to fd box or from fd prop to s13 diff, (or even put whole fd running gear all the way back to the hubs?) use fd wiring loom and ecu and get smart person to splice in all ancillary electrics (lights, wipers,p/s etc etc) turn key and drive away in cloud of tyre smoke!

Ok so possibly a tad oversimplified, but can anyone give me a good reason to shoot this idea dead before I even consider it further? I'm not expecting it to take any less than at least a year to do, and I hope to learn to welding, panel beating, machining, wiring and the rest along the way, but it would be a fun way to learn, surely!
It depends on a lot of things panning out in the future but I just thought I would air it and see what people say. :)

[dandan]

oh, and i've already got a name for it,


drum roll


'PROJECT 200RX'


as louis walsh would say, 'i like it'

[royal]

Like your vision! Don't reckon it would take you a year though. A crazy mate of mine put an engine and running gear from a Supra into an old tax free jeep thing! Craziest thing I've ever seen. It had a right load of dodgy welding on it.I didn't actually see him put it through its paces, only fire it up and then I moved house. He said he just wanted to take out a few scoobies at the lights! I reckon he would have let off the clutch and the engine would have jumped off the chasis!

[Adriansturgess]

Dandan......I applaud your ambition...... :bandit

[Adriansturgess]

Like your vision! Don't reckon it would take you a year though. A crazy mate of mine put an engine and running gear from a Supra into an old tax free jeep thing! Craziest thing I've ever seen. It had a right load of dodgy welding on it.I didn't actually see him put it through its paces, only fire it up and then I moved house. He said he just wanted to take out a few scoobies at the lights! I reckon he would have let off the clutch and the engine would have jumped off the chasis!

Yeah, well that might just have taken the Scooby out anyway....flattened by a flying engine..... :Giggle

[Mr J.T]

Yeah, well that might just have taken the Scooby out anyway....flattened by a flying engine..... :Giggle


lol we no like scoobys :WaveBye

[J4P RX]

Buying an FC would be easier and cooler

[dandan]

well yeah of course it would be easier but thats not the point!

I'm going for innovation here, not repetition!
So no dead-ends mentioned yet, this could be possible....?

[antnicuk]

only one thing i can think of.................. why?

As J4P RX says, buy a cheap TII, they are quite rare and you can certainly practice your welding......... you can also scare FD's with some engine tweaks.....

I could understand putting a nissan engine in an RX but i cant see the appeal of the other way round, the RX looks better.

[Kron]

Why not look for something a little more exclusive? There are so many 200sx's around and the car is only looked fondly upon by the drifiting scene due to its weight distribution otherwise its a pretty plain package.

If you're going for innovation you don't want to be using an S-body Nissan.

[dandan]

fair points from tony and kron, but there are some points of method to my madness...
Firstly, I think it has to be a non-rotary and probably non-mazda transplant vehicle, to possibly help raise awareness of the rotary and its possible uses outside of rx7's. (if i did it I would like to really do it properly and make lots of people aware of it too) I would like it to be something people in the scene know well, but don't expect to have a rotary engine in.

Secondly the 200sx s13 is cheap and readily available and there are huge amounts of tuning parts available and loads of very knowledgeable people who have worked on them for years which would make problem solving a lot easier.

Thirdly it's true it is a mainly drift-related car, but how is this a bad thing? drifting is great!

Looks-wise i dont think much matches a nice rx but thats a sacrifice i will have to make.

Does anyone have any suggestions of other vehicles to use? FR layout, reasonably light, cheap, with a readily available list of modified parts? all suggestions very welcome, plus they have to be able to have a catchy title like 200rx! lol

[banned advertiser]

Think your plan is good Dandan, they are cheap, parts are easy, have seen some very nice kitted ones, so not ugly, and most importantly, would be nice to see the nissan boys faces when there supior cars get mashed and they discover it ortor powered.

[fro]

Good idea Dan. There's enough room in a S13 engine bay to have a party compared to a FD. The only minor problem I could forsee is the steering column - with a CA the column's on the intake side of the engine, with a 13b it would be on the turbo side (and might possibly get in the way of the exhaust or turbo(s))

[mullins]

There are so many 200sx's around

Could say the same about FD's.

and the car is only looked fondly upon by the drifiting scene due to its weight distribution otherwise its a pretty plain package.

I look fondly upon them and I'm not into drifting! They're a damn fine car and I like the shape. Plain package :xconfused
Sorry not picking on you Kron. :WaveBye

Another good conversion it the Toyota Altezza. A friend of a friend converted one to a 13B turbo in N.Z. Let's just say it went a lot quicker that it did from the factory (and originality is everything in the car scene over there). Also don't forgot the good old BMW route.

I personally would love to see a few more people here in the U.K. "break the mould" with regards to conversions and innovations. We can't all drive round in identical looking FD's with big wings ;)

Dandan do what YOU want to do!

[BlitzBoy]

Yeah how about an E30 325i sport with a rotary engine?

[mullins]

PM me if you want more details... :3gears-rh

http://bismuth.chelmer.co.nz/smunden/badrotor/htdocs/images/bmw5.jpg

[20B_boy]

Yeah how about an E30 325i sport with a rotary engine?
Was one in FF&R a couple of years ago - rocked :)

[BlitzBoy]

Now that rocks!!!!!!!!!

[shaunwil]

if theres loads of room and the chassis is designed for a heavier engine why not go the whole hog and stick a 20b in it ????

Sounds like a fun project :)

Shaun

[shaunwil]

Could say the same about FD's.

Another good conversion it the Toyota Altezza. A friend of a friend converted one to a 13B turbo in N.Z. Let's just say it went a lot quicker that it did from the factory (and originality is everything in the car scene over there). Also don't forgot the good old BMW route.



Isn't Thor racing putting a 4.5l V8 in one of those ????

Shaun

[sadgoth]

unusual suggestions for modification with a 13bREW
Mk1 or Mk2 Escort
MGB
Talbot Sunbeam (ideally the lotus Sunbeam)
Jag XJS ?
Datsun/Nissan 280zx or mk1 300zx
Mitsubishi Starion
Mitsubishi EX2000 turbo
early rwd Toyota Corolla

there's a few ideas :)

[Kron]

240/60/80z's would be my choice if I had the cash to do a project. Beautiful cars.

http://www.agbr20777.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/40z.jpg

http://www.agbr20777.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/80z.jpg

[fro]

unusual suggestions for modification with a 13bREW
Mk1 or Mk2 Escort
MGB
Talbot Sunbeam (ideally the lotus Sunbeam)
Jag XJS ?
Datsun/Nissan 280zx or mk1 300zx
Mitsubishi Starion
Mitsubishi EX2000 turbo
early rwd Toyota Corolla

there's a few ideas :)


A Mk1 escort with a rotary would be cool (the ford purists would lynch you though)
A 60 series starlet would be great with a rotary in it, and very fast too since they weigh as much as a fag paper :)

[J4P RX]

unusual suggestions for modification with a 13bREW
Mk1 or Mk2 Escort
MGB
Talbot Sunbeam (ideally the lotus Sunbeam)
Jag XJS ?
Datsun/Nissan 280zx or mk1 300zx
Mitsubishi Starion
Mitsubishi EX2000 turbo
early rwd Toyota Corolla

there's a few ideas :)

Its a nice list but very few of those are cheap now

[dandan]

wow thanks for all the interest!
a z car would be cool but may turn into more of a restoration project than an engine conversion, I have to admit to being after a modern car purely for ease of maintenance.

well everyone seems to think it should be a good idea so this means you will all help out when I get started...?!

rob, the rx manages to avoid the steering on the turbo side, and with the extra space it should be ok? may need some inventive exhaust routing though...

shaunwil I did think about a 20b too, but again it could be an availability problem, a 13b is simple to pick up, a 20b may prove a little more difficult, not to mention expensive and complicated, plus ive never worked on one.

[sadgoth]

Its a nice list but very few of those are cheap now

that was why I suggested the 280zx rather than the 240 or 260, 280s are still not overly expensive. Mitsi LTs are cheap (most are rust held together with small amounts of steel!) unless minters. Jag XJS's are cheap as chips :Giggle but the others are all a bit excessive I guess. you could also go for a BMW 2002 (if the engine was shagged, it would be reasonable cheap)

[antnicuk]

you need to go for something failry light weight due to the lack of low end torque, as much as i love the Z's, they may be a bit heavy. A Mk1 or 2 escort would be great and parts are easy and cheap as chips.

A good car if you dont mind not having a roof would be a Super 7 kit car of some sort.

A vauxhall Shovet would be good fun, but if a really good rear wheel drive car would be a ...............................Robin Reliant.

Remember ....... Retro is cool!

[fro]

As far as affordability's concerned, a S13 is definitely a good move. There's loads out there with shagged bottom ends you can pick up for (relative) peanuts and there are masses of drivetrain upgrades available for reasonable money :)
they do rust though!

[Ada7]

A good car if you dont mind not having a roof would be a Super 7 kit car of some sort.
Bit like this then ... :)

Love the Mk1 escort idea. Keep it standard on the outside, go to one of the Ford owners club shows, get a crowd around it... then open the bonnet!! Watch the faces turn blue :rollin

Adam

[fro]

S13 engine bay (thanks to Ad on sxoc)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/adnchez/DSCF0670.jpg

lots of room. Buy a left hooker ;)

[GeckoGareth]

There's an S13 in my back garden that I want out the way! it's my housemates but he's strapped for cash right now!

G

[grinder]

fiat x19 or tr7 - i just dont think they are RWD

but certainly something different

[robedwards99]

GET A CAPRI I TELLS YA!!!!
You have to admit "20b Capri" has got a bit of a ring to it! :p

[sadgoth]

GET A CAPRI I TELLS YA!!!!
You have to admit "20b Capri" has got a bit of a ring to it! :p

That would be COOL! You need the chest wig but hey!

Stu, the X19 is RWD but mid engined, the TR7 & 8 were both Front eng RWD

[Adriansturgess]

If your going for a triumph TR, go for a TR6 -the last of the proper TR's........... :D I used to have one....... and actually the idea of a rotary TR6 is ......uhm..........highly......................... ......uhm.........well............................ ...entertaining.

[Brett]

How about finding an old lotus excel or europa and dropping the engine in? (Ok cooling might be an issue, but nothing a few decent sized electric fans and hole saw couldnt sort out)

[dandan]

Right calm down people! lol! If it happens it will more than likely be an sx so all these ideas of other cars, while highly entertaining, aren't really likely possibilites! most of the suggested cars are older than me for a start! The point was to use a car that is well known in the jap modified car scene and then use it to change a few attitudes! Theo nly other real option wouldbe a skyline but i really dont want to do that, too heavy.

Gecko Gareth, does he STILL have that? I nearly bought it from you before! If its still about in a few months tell him my offer of £500 still stands, condition dependant, its been sat there a loooong time now!

Fro, what do you reckon the chances are of shifting that ball joint along the rack a little, or changing the rack for an FD one? If track is similar or wider then it would just be a case of welding new mounts...
not sure i fancy a left hooker, thats a right bugger that it twists in towards the middle of the bay. You'll have to give me a call when you are free and we'll have a chat about it rob. :)

[gmogle]

Dude..wtf

What were you drinking when you came up with that dumbass idea lol

Keep your FD !!! Save your money so you definitely dont have to sell it.

Sorry,

Gareth

[Adriansturgess]

Right calm down people! lol! If it happens it will more than likely be an sx so all these ideas of other cars, while highly entertaining, aren't really likely possibilites! most of the suggested cars are older than me for a start!

But Dandan, It's not our fault that you're such a young thing... :p

Must say a hybrid Skyline rotary sounds quite a novel idea though. Could be the best of all possible worlds???!!!!!????? :bandit or maybe the worst... :3Confused

[kiwimazda]

Or follow Mikes lead and go rear drive 323,13b.
Saw one on ebay all done last week. Sold now

[dandan]

been chatting with some people i know over the last couple of days and they are renting out a barn in deepest darkest Wiltshire (i wont be specific for security reasons) to use as car storage/garage space and they have a space for me if i want in. Went to look at it last night and it's really tidy, 2500sq ft, 3 phase power, water, very secure and best of all, has a halfmile private road leading up to it! :3gears-rh

They want £50 a month rent which includes all bills and stuff, so if I go for this then I will almost certainly be giving this project a try! I'll keep you all posted.

[fro]

Sounds good Dan (apart from the fact Wiltshire is miles away) ;)
Sorry I didn't ring over the weekend. Was busy pulling car to bits :(

[Adriansturgess]

been chatting with some people i know over the last couple of days and they are renting out a barn in deepest darkest Wiltshire (i wont be specific for security reasons) to use as car storage/garage space and they have a space for me if i want in. Went to look at it last night and it's really tidy, 2500sq ft, 3 phase power, water, very secure and best of all, has a halfmile private road leading up to it! :3gears-rh

They want £50 a month rent which includes all bills and stuff, so if I go for this then I will almost certainly be giving this project a try! I'll keep you all posted.

£50 per month is an amazing bargain, especially with power and water thrown in - unbelievably good value, for that alone you've got to find a use to put it to - would be too much of a waste not to.....:)

[dandan]

exactly what i thought, i cant even afford the car to put in the garage yet but im definately getting in at the start cos i can see it having a long waiting list for spaces from local modifiers when it takes off!
hopefully i can find an fd engine to rebuild in there while im saving the pennies... now who's got some BIG porting templates...?!

[DC-TYPER]

Old Nissan Sunny Zx Coupe With A Rotary, They Only 1 Tonne

Rotary Rocket

[Iain C]

wouldnt you be better off with a sr20det from the s14?

[MikeLMR]

but that'd be dull, it's been done to death and just about bolts in D U L L

you won't ever learn anything by taking the easy option ;)

[BlitzBoy]

Agree with Mike on this one, let Dan do something not done in the UK
Go the 200rx!!!

[dandan]

Cheers mike and blitzboy, there's no chance im putting a nissan engine in a nissan car, whats the point!?
It's supposed to be different and fun and interesting (not to mention potentially very challenging!) and besides, iainc if you read my first posts, the whole point is to do something with the rotary engine to possibly open a few eyes in the jap community.
I'll let everyone know when and if this kicks off. :)

[aussie_rx]

ok dandan heres what i know,

my friend owns a nissan silvia back home and funnily enough he came to me with ideas for more power, he said i want it to go like your fc, bieng the rotor head i am you can guess what i suggested, i thought it silly and impossible to get alot of power from a non turbo 2.0l s13 and way too expensive and not worth the power gain to just add a turbo so an engine swap seemed the go.

mummy and daddy pay for all of his expenses (as*whole) lol so we considered the engines. i know someone with a few 20btt lying around so there was one option, the good old 13bt worked of course or maybe an rb26 from a gtr.

The 20b was initially ruled out because of the massive fuel costs and the fear it would never get re-licensed. The 13b was the next option. The engine itself is small as you know so we werent to worried about the fit but the gearbox we thought would be the major trouble. It wasn't.

We had planned out a fair bit for it at this stage and took our ideas to the best workshop by far in Perth Rotormotion along with the car. They had a look and shook their head. They said although the great idea but the money for the new tailshaft, gearbox and mounts and engine that will give you that amount of power you want you would be better off buying a series 8 rx-7 and bridgeporting that lol.

So thats what he did the :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:, just sold the s13 and brought a series 7 and single turbo'd it. It won't be an easy task and it will cost a **** load to do but if you decide to go ahead with it dandan then let me know and send me some pics of the project because i would like to show him lol.

good luck and i hope i didnt doubt you too much. :)

[dandan]

thanks for the useful comments aussie rx, Sounds like basically the same issues that I thought would come up, was his RHD too and so did the steering column present any problems?

This certainly wont be my daily driver, so i'm not bothered about it taking a long time to do, and hopefully if this garage rental kicks off, I will have people there who can do welding and possibly even machining for all my needs! This should save me some serious cash.

As i understand it you could leave the rear drivetrain in the s13, (and use stock upgrade parts to cope with the power), and then literally join half the fd prop to half the s13 prop with some big fat welding, is this possible?
Then it is just a case of getting all the mounts sorted isnt it?
I really appreciate the input, and dont worry it hasnt put me off at all!

[dandan]

bought this today...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/project%20200RX/200sx1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/project%20200RX/200sx2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/project%20200RX/200sx3.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/project%20200RX/200sx4.jpg

[nikp]

All you need now is the rotary engine...

Go for it!

[dandan]

Cheers Nik.

Tim, if you are reading this, i'l be down next week to see what engines you have, so don't go hiding all the good ones in the corner! :)

[aussie_rx]

Well congrats on the buy, no roto's didnt seem to bothered about the steering column just about everything else though lol... I'm really exciteded for you and hope all goes wonderfully well. Please keep me posted on how the build goes who knows i mite come back to england sometime in the future to check it out hopefully.

She seems a very tidy car and im sure you wont have trouble getting sponsers to help with the cost if they hear about this project... maybe its worth a thought for a few stickers ey. They get promotion on a one of a kinda car and you get some cash or products to help you on your way.

You seem very enthusiastic about the project so again i wish you all the best luck and about the welding im sure it should work but a custom lightned tailshaft would make all the difference if you can fork out the extra £1000 or so for it.

hope to here it running in the future and god speed for all rotor fans with dandans enthusiasm, its good to see its still alive.

[dandan]

^^Best post ever!

Cheers aussie rx :):):)

[JapSceneUK.co.uk]

Dan.. good lad..nice to see someone doing something different..will have to make yet another trip down to sunny southampton to see this baby!...

If you need a hand with bits from japan etc just give me a tinkle... and as aussie rx said.. few japscene stickers would be nice :D inreturn for some bits of cause :)

Keep us posted buddy

Ta Very muchy

Gord

[dandan]

Right, i've been driving this car aorund for a week now, and to be honest, it's so nice I'm not sure i can bring myself to rip it to bits for a project that may not even work out!
Don't get me wrong, I still want to put this idea into action, but I think I might wait until I can afford another 200sx and keep this one as a daily car, also saving up a decent reserve fund so things can move along quicker might be a good plan too.
I've finally got some money and i'm not sure I can face being skint again so soon! I reckon if i can get £5000 in the bank i should be well away, this is based on:
another car £1000
Dead 13b £400
rebuild kit £900
Turbo (new t70) £2200
I/C 2nd hand £500
oops, thats £5000 already and doesnt include various spares and parts and any machining work i need!

I reckon the start of next year would be a more suitable kick-off point for this, so nobody hold your breath at the moment! :)

[aussie_rx]

Maybe look around for a decent 2nd hand turbo whilst your saving up... if the project isnt going ahead straight away you may find yourself a real bargain to save you some $$$. Turbo's dont have a big re-sell value especially after they have been fitted. The best is to find a car that has been crashed that is also modified with little km's on the clock. It has saved me $$$$$'s in the past, just an idea.

Have you done rebuilds before by yourself? Just curious as they are not the easiest thing to do if you dont have the right tools and it makes one very expensive mistake. Again just a thought. But im sure with some help from the guys on this site it should be a piece of cake...

good luck for the build

[dandan]

good idea about stockpiling decent second hand bits as they turn up, I might well keep my eye open on that one.
I havent actually rebuilt an engine before but i previously bought all the tools in preparation to do it, including the 13re build dvd and i have had a few engines apart so i'm reasonably confident about the rebuild side of things. Also anything I do will be checked over by the guys at RE:worx or Tim at rx motors so that should keep me going in the right direction too.
cheers! :)

[metalhead]

Hey mate, nice conversion! Several people in Australia have done this and while information is a bit scarce there is some info on it in the tech section on Ausrotary (www.ausrotary.com).

Good luck with the project, when you're doing the work yourself it is a lot more worthwhile than paying someone else to do it, because your own labour costs a lot less money! I always think it's kinda funny when I read people saying that it costs some ridiculous sum of money and that you need to pay thousands of dollars to have something like this done, and that it's just not worthwhile no matter what, when many others with a bit more time and effort have done it themselves for much cheaper.

Stick at it, I'm sure it will be great.