UpGrade Stages?

[Grizzly]

Does anyone know of any sites that have the Stages of engine Upgrades for the T2.

Chris

[grinder]

engine upgrades - no idea

but you can do the simple stuff like a fuel cut defense thingy and a boost controller

but i assume you already know this !!!

[Paul-Tll]

What...
Chris thought you would have your own site !
Of all you posts here and there over the years
What you got going on at the mo. Did you get that computor
sorted ( E6 ?),radiators ,body kits thought it was all in hand.
If you mean the actual engine Hurley or Haywood in the uk,
spose but FC3s-pro. or killerbee or some of the Aus site spring to mind.
Paul.. (you taking a car to pod)?

[Grizzly]

I am asking for refrence for others as well as a 4 year refresher.

Guess i should read my Threads before Posting them, that makes me sound like a Newbie. ;)

Chris

P.s. Have my own site, LOL i am the origanal Computer Muppet.

[Grizzly]

Ok this is my first Mods, Exhaust,Filter (of my Red T2) LTX8,1000cc injectors,FPR,GTR Fuel Pump,FMIC,TO4e

Thats what i would need for 280-300 bhp i would have thought.

But i was more intrested in what people run on Stock EMS,IC with Filters and Exhaust without blowing up?

I personaly have seen 240bhp from a stock T2 with 12ish Psi of boost (not taking Spike into account from the Exhaust and Filter) which over 6 months blew the Turbo,Rad and finaly 2 Apex Seals.

I was intrested as a Guy i spoke who was in the start Tuning position was told he could run 1 Bar on a stock car and fuel system. This is somthing i will not belive until i see it.

Chris

P.s. I dont understand how people can claim 260-280bhp on stock Engines/Turbo's etc? I just thought i had missed some cool new Trick.

[Grizzly]

I think i've had one of those days.

Chris

[grinder]

hiya chris - hope everything is well !

i can remember talking to you a while back ( you was looking at jons car )

i was wondering about upgrading mine ( only thinking at this moment in time )

so what the best course of action

1 - fuel pump
2 - bigger injectors
3 - ECU

or is there a SAFE way to gain a few BHP ( already have a power flow exhaust )

i dont think a panel filter makes much of a difference

is it worth doing the throttle body mod , or not , jon said you had probs with your - in that it would only tick over at 1.5K from that point ??

Thanks

Stu

[Grizzly]

Well first of i think you have your list the wrong way around, in my opinion i'd do it ECU first then exhaust,Fuel pump and Injectors etc. if you fit your Injectors and pump first you will have nothing to drive the Injectors so it will run very Rich.

My TB mod was only fitted the day before and as i droped everything to come over to sort Jon's Turbo, so i didn't have time to set the Idle up so yes it did run at 1400rpm, but it dont now ;) Nice of him to point it out after his little stunt.

End of the Day it all comes down to "what Power are you looking for?" followed by the "How much have you got to spend?" Question.

Chris

P.S. How is the car going, Ok i hope.

[grinder]

thanks for the reply chris !

the car is doing fine , it need the tracking doing at the minute and maybe the wheels balancing - its gets very twitchy at about 135 !

the upgrades - i was just thinking what i could do to it - i can remember you telling me about the stuff - i just forgot about the order ( and yes it was nice of jon to remind me about yours )

the car is running ok and its nice and fast - so i was just wondering what i could do to it

what did the Throttle bod mod actaully do ?

im not after STUPID BHP , but a little more wouldnt go a miss !! ha ha ha

im after maybe only a 50 BHP increase probably - but it all depends on what costs are invloved and how much hassle it is - and how much it cuts engine life by

i dont want to do what jon did as im not sure if that caused the turbo to fail ?? ( but it depends on who you speak to - to if that caused it )

im sure jon said that for about 1K you can get it up to about 330 BHP ( ecu , fuel pump and injectors ) - but again i havent confirmed this price ( yet !! )

so you say do the ecu first - is that a simple case of sending it to pip and ask to drop in a ecu and map it ?? - or something more difficult ?

this could turn into a very long thread !!

Thanks

Stu

( are you going to the decembers meet ?? )

[Grizzly]

£1000 for 330bhp? LOL

Jon never got to do any mods so i dont know where he gets his figures, £1000 will see 250bhp if your lucky, You have to do the Expencive bit first before you can think of fitting Big Turbo's and Porting it, thats where the Grand goes ECU,Injectors,Pump + Fitting.

Then when that is done you can think about fitting a T4 and a Ft mount IC Etc then you may see over 300bhp but without a Turbo you have no chance.

"Why did Jon's car have a Turbo Problem?" it goes somthing like this, He fitted a Boost controler and a Decat then wound the boost up, this basicly made it run lean, we have all heard about the Apex's going when it run Excesive lean but one of the milder Symptoms that take place is the Turbine Housing Cracks around the Wastgate this causes poor throttle responce and a loss of Boost.

This is why we replaced his with the one of my old Turbo.

My TB Mod only realy helps the Throttle responce. If i was you before looking for more HP i'd look at the Reliability mods.

Chris

[sophie23_98]

i dont think jon said £1000 as he knows its about that for ecu so where u get the info from on prices i dont know and we decated first then boost controller and fcd we bought all pieces at the same time off pip.

[sophie23_98]

the advice we got when buying our upgrades was to start off with boost controler and fcd see what you think and by doing that we asked pip what bhp it would be running and he said 250-270bhp we got advice what to do next for upgrades and it was working out about £1600 for the parts ie ecu fuel pump fuel injectors etc.
we booked in to get these parts but then i bought 3rd gen so canceled booking.

[grinder]

jon told me it about about 1k for the ecu , pump and injectors - so this is where i got my price from - i cant say any more than that as its all i know !! :D

after speaking to some rx7 place they said that they had supplied loads of Boost Controllers and FCD - and never had a problem - BUT - you have to make sure you have no cats first - as the engine runs lean ( hot ) other wise - thus the turbo can go bang ( well crack anyways !! )

so chris - as reliablity mods - what do YOU suggest - and what prices and BHP am i looking at

at this moment intime i have to confirm that i have cats or not - so i will have a nosey under the car at the weekend - this should give me a starting point to all this

although i spoke about some upgrades to the better half - and at the end of the day she wasnt impressed - women eh - they have no idea !! But then again - she cant drive the car so thats probably why !!!

Thanks

Stu

[88GT-R]

Hi,
I know that you asked Chris what he would suggest, so i hope you don't mind me sharing my limited wisdom. As you said you are only after about 50 brake or so, you should be able to achieve this with most of the 'reliability' mods. Ie, fuel pump rewire, larger fuel pump, larger secondarys and an ecu, eg microtech. Using the microtech will eliminate your airflow sensor which will increase the amount of airflow. You will not need an FCD. If you take the cats off, you might as well take the airpump off as well as it is useless at this point. If you are worried about passing the emissions part of the MOT, you can lean the fueling at idle, which will pass. With the cats off and air flow sensor gone you will need to control the boost from spiking.
I hope that this has helped.

John
88 GT-R

[88GT-R]

Just to add another point, If you are running the S5, you can also port the wastgate to allow the actuator to stop exsess spiking.
After all this i think you will be looking at a reliable 250-260flywheel hp, depending on your exhaust system and compression.

John
88 GT-R

[grinder]

just bring this post back from the depths !

i have looked at the car and it has no MAIN cat - just the little one

can this cause boost spike at all ???

and will removing the cat have any ill effects on the car ?

and reading in lots of places they say that you can do a fuel pump rewire or fit a bigger pump ( off a 3rd gen is possible so i am lead to believe > )

what does the rewire actually do ?

and why put a 3rd gen pump in ?? - again what does this do ?

if you can do the 3rd gen swap - is it literatly a swap or a bigger job !

thanks

Stu

( chris if you read this - sorry i didnt get to speak to you at the last meet - there was quite a few people huddled round those little tables ! )

[Grizzly]

To put it in a Nut shell, The FD pump is good for 300 bhp and is a straite swap.

The re wire you are talking about, On some older cars they may not be seeing the full 12v at the Pump so in turn you wont be geting the proper out put of the pump, so what they do is Relay the Pump so as soon as you turn the key it gets full 12v. There is a big down sign to this, first the pump is flat out all the time and so it wont last as long then there is alot more fuel at lower revs which in turn causes a richer low revs.

I have a stock GTR pump in my Vert which is the next step up from the FD pump which works fine for me.

Chris

Stu, No probs.

[88GT-R]

Stu,
Just an addition to the previous reply, If you are going to change the fuel pump, which is advisable, it would be a better and cheaper option to go for the Walboro 255lph pump. Straight swap for the std pump, and has a much higher flow and pressure rate than the FD pump. Aswell as being a sight cheaper than the Fd unit.
You will get marginal boost creep with the main cat removed, but keeping the front cat in the downpipe does nothing for your emmisions, and it keeps all the heat right next to the turbo and the engine, which is no good. As your main cat is off, is your airpump still installed?
As a rule of thumb, with an open exhaust system, ie, turbo back, with the air box still installed, you are only likely to hit boost cut on cold days. Go for an open and sheilded air filter, you will need a fuel cut defender, as well as the fuel pump mods.
If you go onto www.teamfc3s.org and seach for 'fuel pump rewire/mod you should find a link to a good write up. Failing that, try www.1300cc.com , where you will find a few interesting write ups, including the pump rewire.

I hope that this helps, good luck.

John
88 GT-R

[grinder]

core blimey thats a lot of into to take in !

right then lets see ...

1 - so i could run a FD pump by itself no probs - thats a start
2 - Walboro 255lph pump - its just finding one at the end of the
day !
3 - main cat is gone , front cat is still on and so is the air pump
4 - still running a standard air box ( although looking at drilling it to make it breate easier ! )
5 - The FCD - i have heard so many stories about this - i dont know who to belive !!

thanks again chaps !

Stu

[88GT-R]

Hi Stu,
FCD first:) This works by clamping the voltage before it gets to the ecu from the boost sensor. IE, the ecu sees boost cut at say 4.3 volts, sent by the boost sensor. The fcd would be set to clamp the voltage at 4.1 volts, thus eliminating the cut. The fcd would be placed between the boost sensor and the ecu. You would obviously need a boost controller to keep the pressure at a reasonable level.
Cat and air pump... a down pipe which would get rid of that evil cat can be had for around 60 quid. You will experiance quicker spooling and a longer 'pull' from the turbo. The turbo and the engine will also run a bit cooler. As there is no main cat, your air pump and control unit are useless and a waste of space. Not hard to remove...but do you want to? Find how to... in the links previous.
Walboro pump... They are quite cheap from the states. I got mine through Racing Beat, But they are also available in the uk.

For all the above bits, speak to Pip Gardner on 01606 48866 at WGT.
I hope this helps

John
88 GT-R

[grinder]

i will have to have a word with my mate chris about taking the air pump off !! ( :wave hiya chris )

can you run the FCD by its self - or does it need the boost controller ??

60 for a pipe - ooohhh thats not too bad - i will have to look into that one

but i heard that if you take them off you can cause damage as you dont get enough back pressure ( or summat like that )

these rx7's are wierd - different story being told be every one !

i think thats my main prob - trying to hard to get the right answer rather than just doing it and worrying later !!

[Grizzly]

If you dont mind me asking what are you looking to achive?

A FCD is in my Opinon a wast of time without somthing add more fuel? ie. Injectors and Rise rate fuel reg. If you are looking for reliability dont cut corners.

The FD pump is not expencive? Try Tim at RXMotors they are readly available. Unfortunatly i dont rate Walbow pumps they are good to mid to late 300's and thats about it.

If you want a tip when you get rid off the Air pump make sure you fit a twin top Pulley, i had a near death experiance a few years ago when the belt started sliping and burnt out in the middle of nowhere which caused it to overheat dramaticly and very quickly so i like to play it safe nowadays.

Chris

[88GT-R]

Chris,
You are totally correctin saying that you need the fueling sorted first, but that doe not make the fcd a bad thing. We all know that if you don't set a limit and a goal when playing with these engines, you will very easily get carried away.
My advice would be, get the car running well, before changing parts.
Make it safe...ie, provide enough fuel through a larger pump, better grounding around the injectors, less heat in the engine bay( front cat).
If you want to start making more power, then we start looking at standalones and and turbos.
But you will need an fcd if you get the downpipe and upgrade the air flow. In turn you will need a larger pump and regulator to keep things even.
Remember killer points on these cars are the fuel system, and heat and dirt....not to say the very slippery slope once you get started:rollin

Good luck

John
88 GT-R

[Grizzly]

I see the FCD as removing the last line of defence against Det and other nasty things when the car has not got the means to be set up correctly with the Extra Boost.

I have run a 2.5" exhaust (-cats) with a Blitz induction kit on a tired T2 without any problems but as soon as i up'd the boost to 10psi i had an Apex seal fail and blew the Turbo, so i am a big believer in doing things right in the first place. I relies now I didn't have full 12v on wot causing it to run lean. POP

Anyway 88 GT-R from you sig i see we have a simalar set up, Do you use Pre mix with your Microtec?

Chris

[88GT-R]

Chris,
As i said before, i agree with you on what you are saying, and if the engine is healthy and tuned right, the fcd can be a tool rather than a cause of detonation. Unless our man goes standalone, he will have to utilise a fcd if he opens up the breathing.

I am using premix...normaly Shell ultra, which is a synthetic 2 stroke oil. Do you use it? What ratio are you using? I am running at 150:1. What differences in set up do you have compared to mine? Am having a to4e/to4b hybrid made up, and will see how that runs.
Will you be going to rotorstock in May? I will be coming over from Germany for the weekend.

Anyway, i think i am stealing Stu's thread. Keep well, i hope to have more conversations with you.

John
88 GT-R

[grinder]

hey guys i dont mind you chatting away - so feel free - at the end of the day i would rather listen to two people with experience of what they have done and what they have achieved !!

basically chris what i would be looking to achieve is a milder faster car !

hows that for an open ended statement !!

chris how did you up your boost to 10psi ??

so then it looks like a nice course of action ( for the engines sake ) is :-

1 - remove the front cat
2 - look at a bigger fuel pump ( probably a third gen )

if i look at doing this before anything else - i should be safe !

rather than going thru the "what if's" i will look at starting simple

the engine has 105K on it ( which means the turbo has that on it to ! ) - but it got a rebuild about 30K ago

at this exact moment intime i cant find anything wrong with the engine - it pulls fine and revs freely - and starts first touch

im more concerned about the life of the engine !! - i cant afford a rebuild and if it goes bang then the car goes to the big garage in the sky !

chris you said I relies now I didn't have full 12v on wot causing it to run lean. POP - now not sure if its your spelling or what , but what is WOT ??????????????

thanks guys for all your help so far !

Stu

[scooby_si]

WOT usually means wide open throttle init? :D
SI

[grinder]

i have no idea !!

i expected an apperance by you si a long time ago though !

[Grizzly]

Yep, WOT usaly means Full throttle.

88 GT-R, I have riged up my OMP to run flat out all the time, ok it smokes sligtly on idle but its not as much as a pain in the rear as Pre mixing.

I am prescently making an Exhaust Manifold for my T2 to run a 60-1 T4 Turbo.

My T2 Vert is a work in progress, i am trying to make it as safe as possable whilst getting as much power. My Every day car is very much on a Buget as i have a Custom Triple Coupe in the build prosses as well. So moneys Tight.

STU, if you want my opinion. Assuming your O2 sencer and fuel Pump is good (Pump seeing full 12v on WOT) I would keep it tame fit a 2.5" exhaust and a Induction kit then find somone that has a Wide band 02 that can tell you how close you are to your limit then i supose as long as its not starting to drop into the lean you can fit a FCD and play with the boost until you are at a safe place.

I have been told though without a Stand alone you may struggle getting anything over 230bhp without risks, just dont get greedy on a stock set up.

Chris

[grinder]

thanks chris !

I think this thread is gonna get VERY long winded !

its probably best for you to nosey at the car - as im not sure what exhaust it has currently - its a powerflow one - but not sure of the size !

are you going to the next meet ?? - if so i will bring a torch !! ha ha ha ha !

if 230 bhp is achievable with just exhaust and induction kit then that would keep me more than happy for a while !

although you say induction kit - is that the open filter thingy - or is it better to put in a K&N filter and drill the air box ?