Water temp gauge

[Efini82]

ive heard the standard water temp gauge can be a bit lame on the fd.

i.e., when it starts buzzing u need to be quick about turning the car off or u can do serious damage. personally, id like to know before the buzzing that somethings up...

im looking at getting a mechanical autogauge meter. are these reliable enough?? read some other posts on whether electric of mech gauges are better. id prefer mech as u know wots happening literally there and then, dont have to rely on bits being converted etc.

where would i plumb it into to the system and also wot actual temps am i looking at staying away from?? as the standard gauge just has cold and hot and the rule is basically keep it in the middle isnt it?

cheers


Justin

[ftorex]

The standard temp guage is crap to be honest..Best thing to do is fit an aftermarket temp guage as it will give you an accurate temp reading..I fitted one to mine and located the sensor on the thermo. housing..It does take a bit of time but well worth it..Most cars seems to run around 80/85 ish on the temp side..Only problem with locating on the thermo housing is that the guage wont show a reading until the thermostat has opened but its not a problem for me..

:3gears-lh

[nikp]

You could always purchase the Apexi ECU which most people who have FD's have. The Commander unit that comes with the Apexi has a readout which can include the coolant temp which it reads straight from the standard coolant temp. sensor.

Oh, and the only buzzer i know of is the low coolant buzzer, rather than a 'Your Coolant is far too hot' buzzer. It's not quite so much of a rush to turn the engine off then!

[ro284]

I have just bought a cheap one myself Justin and i am drilling and Tap the housing by the water pump, the Tap cost £8 getting through the bulkhead is the next problem and i think i'll wait till it's warmer.
Bob

[Martiny]

ftorex, how can that not be a problem? If the thermo gets stuck closed, and the engine overheats, you wont know. How can that be better than the standard gauge?

[ftorex]

Martiny its not a problem 4 me as I have replaced my thermostat...If your going to take the Thermo housing off you might as well replace the Thermostat + O-ring ...Obviously if the thermostat isnt working then you will have a problem..Im just going on what most people on here seem to say..by the time the standard temp guage goes past normal the engine has probably overheated...Adding an extra temp guage is for peace of mind i think.. ;)

[Jono FD3]

Wouldn't it be better to put the sensor in the rad pipe??? you can get the adaptors off ebay for about £7 if I remember correctly! All you need to do then is cut the rad pipe, fit the adapter and screw in your new sensor!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUTOGAUGE-GAUGE-WATER-TEMP-SENDER-PIPE-38mm_W0QQitemZ8032713560QQcategoryZ72215QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem
I'm doing this too, but I bought an electrical gauge. Lets be fair, it's got to be a shed load more reliable than the standard equipment!!!!!

Jono

[ftorex]

There are both pros and cons for putting the sensor in the thermo housing and in the Rad pipe...Locating it in the thermo housing gives you a more accurate temp reading than it would in the rad pipe.Eventhough the rad pipe is a quicker method of installation..

:flamed

[Jono FD3]

There are both pros and cons for putting the sensor in the thermo housing and in the Rad pipe...Locating it in the thermo housing gives you a more accurate temp reading than it would in the rad pipe.Eventhough the rad pipe is a quicker method of installation..

:flamed


Surley that would depend on how close you mounted it to the block on the rad pipe???? Wouldn't of thought it would make a massive difference.... 1 or 2 degrees??????

Jono

[allstaruk]

The best place for the sensor will be in the water pump housing, Mine is in the thermostat housing and the guys at reworx said it wasn't a good place to have it.

[Efini82]

to be honest i know i asked the question but im with jono on this at the moment unless someone can convince me otherwise. but from previous experience putting in the rad hose wouldnt make that much difference.


id want it from a different source to the standard one for the only reason that if one goes faulty (i.e the thermo goes), then i have another to go by


cheers

justin

PS didnt mean to start an argument.... :2eek

[grinder]

i put mine in the rad hose , nice and simple and cost me £12 for all the bits ( and the gauge )

have a look in the MODS & RESULTS section in the 2nd forum - im sure there is a link in there for it :D

[grinder]

i went and found it for you :D

http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=144188

[Martiny]

Efini, I agree that you should then use both. Putting it in the Rad pipe, again is AFTER the thermostat. I still cannot understand how anyone thinks thats a good idea, or maybe I am just being really thick??????

[grinder]

the only thing of putting is BEFORE the thermostat is that you get a reading all the time ( regardless of open or closed )

but once it opens - it becomes one full system - so the temp should be uniform

i put mine there as it gives me a reading which i can watch and once it starts to move i can slow down or stop

i dont think there is a proven right or wrong place for it - mine went there for easy

once the thermostat opens at 82 or 87 , then the dial shows me a temp , if that temp climbs , you know its hot , the thermostat then plays no part in the open system ( or thats how i see it !! )

[Martiny]

The thermostat plays a part in an open system, because it is the very thing that has opened the system. If that part were to fail or be partially faulty, you are not reading the ENGINE temperature.

Actually, once its opened, do you think it STAYS open? No way, it will be constantly opening and closing to try and keep the temperature constant.

What you guys are reading is the RADIATOR temperature, not the Engine temperature. Well, I dont care what the radiator temp is, I care what the ENGINE temp is, thats whats going to cause the damage.

No, sorry, I dont get it, and I think I give up now, someone needs to explain it to me perhaps face to face with a piece of paper or something.

[RobbieRX-7]

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=247152

[nikp]

No way, it will be constantly opening and closing to try and keep the temperature constant


Hi Martin, surely you're not suggesting that a thermostat will fully close in an up-to temperature engine, are you? The thermostat starts to open at 80-81 degrees, and as such, as long as that temp has been reached, will always be partially open.

I'm sure you know that - I'm sure it's just the way it's been written! :p

[Fish]

Justin, a bit off topic and not meaning to be horrible, but is there a reason for your posts always being in bold?

Fish

[Martiny]

Hi Martin, surely you're not suggesting that a thermostat will fully close in an up-to temperature engine, are you? The thermostat starts to open at 80-81 degrees, and as such, as long as that temp has been reached, will always be partially open.

I'm sure you know that - I'm sure it's just the way it's been written! :p

Well, I agree it wont be fully closed, I guess the temp has to go down quite a bit for it to do that.

If I can make an analogy - if I wanted to measure the temp in my house, I could put a sensor outside the house, in the path of an open window, so I measuring the temp of the air coming out of the house.

Now, what temp will I see if my wife closes that window?

-- what will you see when the thermostat fails? Or are they 100% fail safe?

[Martiny]

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=247152

Good one, Robbie, that backs up exactly what I have been saying. The throttle body coolant tap makes more sense, it "sees" nearly the same temp as the engine, and the coolant, I think, is circulated there regardless of thermostat being open or closed.

[Jono FD3]

So basicaly the thing your saying is, to get a perminant acurate reading you have to situate the sensor where the stock unit is??????

What if you get an adaptor made that screws in to the standard fitting in the block that allows you to put the stock and auxilary sensors in (like the oil pressure T pieces)???

Jono

[nikp]

Well, if you want an accurate reading, why don't you just use an electric gauge that pulls the signal off the standard sensor? That's probably eaisest!

I'm ok - I have two! I have the stock sensor reading through the apexi commander, and a secondary sensor plumbed into the top rad hose. So I can compare my temps together. I can tell if the thermostat is healthy or sticking, I can identify if the fans are working and i can generally monitor the health of the whole coolant system!

[nikp]

If I can make an analogy - if I wanted to measure the temp in my house, I could put a sensor outside the house, in the path of an open window, so I measuring the temp of the air coming out of the house.


Actually, i don't think that's a good anology. I think it would be better desribed as:

If you have a multi story house (Say 2 or 3 floors) and you have your homes central heating thermostat located on the ground floor - you have an 'after market' heat sensor on the floor above - they'll read different temperatures, but they'll go up and down at similar rates, but not necassarily at the same time period.

Actually, this is exactly what I have at home! :)

[allstaruk]

I'm with martiny,l the gauge needs to measure the engine temp not the radiator temp, I have recently ssorted out an overheating problem on my car which was caused by a dodgy thermostat. My gauge is tapped into the thermostat housing which meant that I was reading the radiator temp not the engine temp so all the readings were comming up fairly normal while the engine was getting extreemly hot.

If you put the gauge in the rad pipe or themostat housing you have to take the risk that the thermostat may break and you won't know and it will destroy your engine.

Unless you have a power FC aswell and then you can use it to moniter the engine temp and then the gauge to measure the radiator temp allowing you to see if the thermostat is working.

[Martiny]

Nik, yes that is a better analogy.

Allstar, thanks for the support, I felt I was drowning there for a while. A better than stock solution would be a better gauge using the stock sensor, or at least the stock sensor location.

:-)

[nikp]

A better than stock solution would be a better gauge using the stock sensor, or at least the stock sensor location.


Yup, pretty much what i said. And what the Apexi Commander does too! There, everyones happy.... aren't they!? :)

[nikp]

Actually, you can actually do some jiggery-pokery with the standard gauge to linearize it, so it moves when the temps move. Quite a pain in the butt operation to do though!

[nikp]

Here (http://www.nikpeters.f2s.com/Instructions.pdf) are the instructions on how to linearize the stock temperature gauge for the FD for anyone who is interested.

I've currently uploaded it to my own web site, but if people are interested in this, it may be worthwhile uploading it to the MRC website with a sticky thread.

Hope this is of interest to people.

[allstaruk]

If your not using a power FC then you can plump a gauge into the standard water temp mount, making the one on the dash redundandt its a bit of a pain to get to but it is a standard gauge mount so should just screw in.

[probedb]

I had Pip install my sensor while it was in for a service and he said it won't show a reading till the thermostat opens. Is he wrong to have put it there then?

[Martiny]

Here (http://www.nikpeters.f2s.com/Instructions.pdf) are the instructions on how to linearize the stock temperature gauge for the FD for anyone who is interested.

I've currently uploaded it to my own web site, but if people are interested in this, it may be worthwhile uploading it to the MRC website with a sticky thread.

Hope this is of interest to people.

Interesting reading

[Efini82]

Justin, a bit off topic and not meaning to be horrible, but is there a reason for your posts always being in bold?

Fish
no reason really mate just for every forum i go on i always have put my posts in blue and bold. :WaveBye

im just trying to sort thru all the posts to figure out what im supposed to do.... i didnt mean to start a fight.... :Hammer



J

[grinder]

makes for an interesing debat to be honest :D

reasons for putting mine where i did

1 - i bought the gauge and it was cheap
2 - it was the only real answer
3 - surely some reading is better than none
4 - both my stock gauge and after market read a temp
5 - how can the top hose be showing a reading of 82 and the engine over heating .. that sounds like a water pump failure and you would be reading static water

JUST out of interest , is the top rad hose reading water going into the rad or water coming out ... this gives you two sorts of answers

1 - if it reads GOING IN .. then this is the temp of the water in the engine , and not cooled , so if this is HIGH then your engine is very hot aswell - time to pull over and pray to the rotary gods
2 - if its water COMING OUT THE RAD .. then this is the temp of the water that is feeding the engine .. so if that at a normal temp then so should the engine ?

discuss :D

Stu

[grinder]

ive changed the thread title aswell - it was really annoying me :D

[Efini82]

riiiiiiiight, think i know where i should put it but still wanna get it right so...


1)could just replace the standard gauge with the new one i have from the standard sensor location but somethings still niggling me about that....

2)in the themo housing by drilling and tappin like the guy on here

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=247152

says to do seems like the good place, but as people have said (and makes sense),if the t-stat is knackered then i wont know (pretty thorough instructions tho)

oh bu*ger. where shall i stick it (dont tempt me! and it sure as hell aint up mine...)!!? someone just tell me please :flamed

my heads hurting :3Confused .long day at work with some headcase who wouldnt shutup.!


J

PS why did did u change the thread name? wot did i call it? not that i care :p :Grrr

[grinder]

you called it water temop gauge

the O in temp was really buggin me :D

to be honest matey - stick it where you feel comfortable - I did , and i havent lost sleep over it

we can argue this over 10 pages , at the end of the day its YOUR car :)

i put mine there cause i wanted to and it gives me a reading , i know when the thermostat has opened , therefore its at an operating temp :)

im just waiting for you next thread ... OIL TEMP GAUGE !! LOL :D :D :D

now before you say , mine is going in a housing plate under the oil filter , this may or may not be the best place as you can tap it into the oil cooler banjo bolt thingy - im not , its going in a plate :D

Stu

[Martiny]

Efini, yes, its your car, put it where you want it.

But, for me, after the thermostat is a cr4p idea, sorry !

:-)


Stu, there is no oil thermostat ( there was on early cars ), the oil is pumped everywhere all the time, so , anywhere in the system should be fine. Mind you there are pressure relief valves, I guess its not pumped everywhere all the time. Without investigating it, though, I guess it would always be pumped through the filter, so that should be a pretty good place for it.

[Martiny]

5 - how can the top hose be showing a reading of 82 and the engine over heating .. that sounds like a water pump failure and you would be reading static water?

Answer - because the thermostat is stuck closed - or, as you say, the water pump has failed, which, actually is ANOTHER reason why putting it in the hose is a cr4p idea !! :-)

[Efini82]

how rude!!!! :flamed i wasnt gonna ask about oil temp gauge (and the O was a typo, not me being a flid)

right, im gonna try replacing the standard gauge with the new one.


cheers

bye

[grinder]

i was only posting in yest matey :D :D

when you do it - dont forget to take pics so that people can see what you are doing :D

[Martiny]

:- ))))))))))))))

[Jono FD3]

because the thermostat is stuck closed - or, as you say, the water pump has failed, which, actually is ANOTHER reason why putting it in the hose is a cr4p idea !! :-)

I'm ill at the moment so Im probably being thick because of it, BUT:

If you have a standard gauge along with an after market one which is plumbed in to the top hose, You would imedeatly know if the thermastat had faild shut!!
basicaly from my experiance with my FD driving in arctic conditions the other week, the thermastat opens about 1/4 - 1/3 of the way up the standard gauge, so basicaly if your second gauge doesnt show a reading by this time your thermostat has faild shut!!
Also thermostats dont open at 80ish degrees then fail & shut (from my experiance!!!)!!!!

The same process would apear if the water pump fails........ but even then the stock gauge wouldn't respond as the warm water isn't being pumped to eather of the sensors!!!!!!!

Thats my opinion,
Jono

[Martiny]

I think it was good to change the title because if people do a search, they will find this thread.

Mind you , the more people find it, the more flak I will probably get !

:-)

[grinder]

he he he !!

mine being an FC the gauge sits flat at 90 degrees , so if the top hose gauge doesnt show a reading after a few mins of it being in that position i know i have a problem

i also make sure i give it no heavy right foot until the top hose has a reading ( and then i usually wait as oil will take longer to get hot ) - thats why i want the oil temp gauge in aswell

Stu

[nikp]

Just out of interest Martin, what sort of system do you run?