Racial Correctness [Archive] - mazdarotaryclub.com

gsb876

28th January 2006, 02:13 PM

Just read the other threads on this here arguement,

Now i am Indian as most of you guys know and have not really had any racial problems through my life luckily :) but it does exist and sometimes you have to walk away as it isn't worth the trouble but sometimes you can react also.

Last incident i had was when i still used to play sunday league when i went up to head the ball and accidently elbowed the chap i was challenging, anyhow instead of saying any number of insults he says "stupid :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: Paki", to which i replied " you could have said any insult you wanted and i would hve apologised for the elbow but not for this" and chased the dude round the pitch before being stopped by my team mates, in fairness the other teams manager took the player off and bo!!ocked him for the abuse.

I think the influx of migrants has ruffled some feathers and i think some people cant tell the difference between the different cultures, not a thing you can comment on really as i cant tell the difference between say a Scot / Welsh / English person without hearing them speak.

Derby itself is quite multi-cultural and everyone seems to get on really well, not had any racial incident in say 6 years myself so canna complain.

The only time was when a mate of mine wearing a Sikh turban was told to take it off by a white chap as we are in England now, to which i replied if you went on holiday to India and had a cross on a neck chain would you take it off ? answer no for both :)

On a positive note i have travelled all over England with the MRC and have never felt any sort of racism from any of our members whasoever, thankyou guys very much for this wonderful freindly club :god

Gurj

mullins

28th January 2006, 02:17 PM

I don't see the problem, we've all been called names before!

I don't make a post everytime someone calls me an aussie c&nt! :Yawn

gsb876

28th January 2006, 02:20 PM

I don't see the problem, we've all been called names before!

I don't make a post everytime someone calls me an aussie c&nt! :Yawn

Its a case of being judged by your colour above anything else, you are Aussie but i guess still white yes ? In which case it wont apply to your case matey :Tongue1

mullins

28th January 2006, 02:25 PM

Its a case of being judged by your colour above anything else, you are Aussie but i guess still white yes ? In which case it wont apply to your case matey :Tongue1

Don't forget a white "aussie" living near brixton is no picnic. Racism works both ways. It's not just coloured people that are victims of racism! :2Rolleyes

gsb876

28th January 2006, 02:28 PM

Don't forget a white "aussie" living near brixton is no picnic. Racism works both ways. It's not just coloured people that are victims of racism! :2Rolleyes

Yep it sure can

shafster

28th January 2006, 05:18 PM

i've grown up with a lot of this type of abuse mainly from people who are uneducated and dont know any better to those who have loads of money but dont know anything at all.

for someone to turn around and say you are from pakistan arent you? is to me a blatant indication that they are racist

1. because calling someone a paki is like calling a black person nigger or a white person honky, chalky or white trash. racism sometimes is blatant and other times subtle. the person being abused does know where to draw the line and if they consider a remark towards them to be racist, then it is just that.

2. a friend can call me what they like and i wont be offended but if someone who doesnt know me calls me something other than my name which reflects my origin or parents origin, then i consider that to be racist as there are many ways of addressing people without referring to race, creed, colour, religion, sexual preference etc.

3. the k*** j****y on the skyline forum who made his comment about the guy being from pakistan needs to think long and hard about what he has said as to me that type of comment incites racial hatred not only amongst others but mself too. personally i would like to stick his head on the end of a very blunt pole. it is this type of person that thinks they are being clever and can use ignorance as a defence. f******g moron!

pete sparrow

28th January 2006, 06:20 PM

Hi
Personally i don't think 9/11,and the wars in iraq and afganistan have done any of us any favours,there seems to be alot of tension amoust races now which is a real break down in communication and understanding.
I used to live in Leeds in a district called Headingly.Totally mixed cultures
on every street.I got racially abused on a dayly basis for being white,i was
totally shocked by this,but i never fired back once,not down to fear but
to pity! I pitied them!!
Like they say 'ignorance is bliss' !!!!!!!!!!
I now live in Hereford a mainly white community and the locals are very
ignorant indeed which annoys me greatly!!!! The racial unrest here does not go by colour but by border,who lives were. Herefordians take the p*ss out of the welsh and visa versa.very strange. It's down to history,the accient wars
between the English and the Welsh.
Resentment,jealousy,anger or ignorance they'll always be a major fact!
Cheers
Pete

20B_boy

28th January 2006, 06:21 PM

I don't see the problem, we've all been called names before!

I don't make a post everytime someone calls me an aussie c&nt! :Yawn
What if they call u a kiwi c&nt tho? :rollin

oldone

28th January 2006, 06:52 PM

Well then,.... it seems to be the norm in this country to be touchy about your skin colour,your origin,..........so the next person that refers to my skin colour or origin I will break at least an arm or remove an eye or even better I will put a lil 3" blade between his 2nd and 3rd rib......seems that its okay to do it.Then Il post on the forum and try and get some sympathy or justify what I have done.

Maybe you young fella's should sit down and reflect on your attitude towards life...fight to protect what is dear to you..like your family,your house etc.It takes a 'stronger' man to walk away from conflict.Beating a man because he abused you verbally ??? What will happen if you are really abused ???????

My thoughts are always diff cos Ive been around the block a few times.......

Rixio

28th January 2006, 07:26 PM

Basically what your telling us...is if somebody called you a piishead old fcuking fat cnut in a pub is that youd actually take that sort of abuse from a total stranger!? Im sorry but i dont accept that! Another example...your wife/girlfriend gets called a slut or whore infront of your face by a total stranger your gonna let them! I dont think so...

Put it another way...This actually happened mid last year! A women in Hijaab gets attacked & beaten up at Asda car park because shes dressed in Islamic clothing. Would this have ever happened to a white women in a skimpy mini skirt and bikini top?? NO IT WOULDNT!!!

Kash_

28th January 2006, 08:45 PM

You would have thought that in this day and age societies attitude towards other cultures would have changed for the better... unfortunately there are still a few people out there in this world whose mentality is that of an idiot. When someone is called a paki it is never meant as saying "your from paskistan", for those who think this, wake up.... it is always meant as a racist term for religion and the colour of a persons skin, end of story.

mullins

28th January 2006, 09:42 PM

A women in Hijaab gets attacked & beaten up at Asda car park because shes dressed in Islamic clothing. Would this have ever happened to a white women in a skimpy mini skirt and bikini top?? NO IT WOULDNT!!!

If the white bikini woman was in an islamic country? :Giggle

What if they call u a kiwi c&nt tho? :rollin

They always assume aussie........Damn Neighbours and Home and Away got a lot to answer for :rollin

gsb876

28th January 2006, 09:51 PM

I grew up watching Neighbours and Home And Away !!!! :Talking1 damn the mental scars :Tongue1 :rollin :rollin :rollin

monkey-fd3s

29th January 2006, 12:27 AM

Dunno, seems like you are making a big issue out of a bit of name calling to me. Everyone from South Africans to Aussies to Germans to English people get called names but most just ignor it. You know if someone did call me fat and I didn't know them I wouldn't give a rats ass, they are entitled to their own opinion and they might have good reason for it...

I'm sure you've never called a person a name because of their race and that you're just perfect...

At least u gave him a good whack

Oh yes you're an upstanding member of the community.

Rixio

29th January 2006, 02:44 AM

I can safely say i havnt called anybody a rascist name...ever! I can only say, read the meaning of the term "Paki" as stated in the link on the other forum...

I dont get why its so hard to understand...would you walk up to Will Smith and call him a "Fcuking Nigger"? You put this to Will Smith and he'd tell you the same answer i have, but hed add a right hook! Trust me i know him! Would you walk up to Amir Khan and call him a "Paki" to his face? No cos hed knock you out! The FACT is a lack of respect! The FACT is its not just a slang word its an INSULT a racial steriotypical INSULT.

I think the only way for people to understand this type of abuse is if you paint urself another colour one day, walk around and then see the difference in peoples attitude towards you...

Also about the bikini babe...No it wouldn't happen in a Muslim country...Egypt is a Muslim country and yet they sell booze and have pork on the menu, even though these are both strictly Haraam/Forbidden. Iv seen chix in bikini's at the beach nobody ever broke their noses. Same goes for other muslim countries like Turkey, Tunisia or Malaysia...this also doesnt boil down to just muslims its a fact for every person of colour! If your born in India, China or Burma but are white and somebody said to you "Go home you fcuking white cnut, go back to your own country, you terrorist!" what would feel like?...Your son comes home from school with a bust nose you ask him what happened he replies with "I was beaten up" you ask why..."Because im white" what do you say to the kid!?

As refrenced above...say if your were German and somebody called you a "Nazi" would you enjoy being called that? Maybe some you should test this...Join a German BMW forum and call them all Nazi's and see how they react...

oldone

29th January 2006, 08:54 AM

I say close this here thread cos its getting alil personal,heated out of hand and if people respond truthfully,there will be a few upset peoploe.The contents have moved off the original whinge to religion,all out blasphmy(sp)
Thanx mods....

iaint

29th January 2006, 09:22 AM

Not going to close it, I'll give people a quick 'warning' though. Go look at the T&C's on joining the club - you'll see that abusive postsing will not be tolerated. Some of the posts above, while trying to make a point, are straying very close to the line in doing so. I'm not going to wave threats or anything like that but take a deep breath and think twice about what you post - you can not take it back!

Racism is an incredibly devisive area - we're all subject to it from time to time and all guilty of it to greater or lesser degrees - even if just in though. This is primarily a car club and this stuff - while important - is not what the forum is for.

Discuss, be honest and feel free to have an opinion but please don't risk stepping over 'the line'. We don't want to have to enforce T&Cs or moderate threads...

20B_boy

29th January 2006, 10:07 AM

I say close this here thread.
I agree. It takes one person to say the wrong thing here and u got big problems.

Ianmcurtis

29th January 2006, 10:29 AM

^Like Iain said, keep it real. All have been warned! If not...............

Oh, and never mind the English, Welsh, Scottish thingy. What about the Newcastle/Sunderland issue as an example of deep rooted hatred. I'd put MONEY on it that there have been plenty of girls in mini skirts thumped, based on which side of a pox* river they were BORN on, white, black, asian...... ;-).

t2rew

29th January 2006, 10:43 AM

this sort of thing winds me up as much as you rixio but from the opisite angle.

my mum is scotish my dad is English. i feel proud of my scotish blood even though i havent been there. i see the scots as tough gritty no nonsence poeple., you'd have to be to live up there. i would feel proud to have some of this in me. my brother even got married in all the kilt and sporren stuff. the tarten being from my grans side the Mc norten clan.

when i told the boys at work they started taking the mic calling me a sweaty (sweaty sock=jock) and how i never want to buy the coffee always looking after the pennies. scots dont like spending money apparently.

this is worse than a pakistani being called a paki. this is blatant abuse but i just took it on the chin. if i was called a scot or english or white i take it as a description of me that was first noticed. its people that take what is being said as racest that are the racest's.

i used to go out drinking with a mixed bunch. me, mongrel british, dave, white, brian, white dad indian mum, moz, greek, and eddy, black as the ace of spades. we used to go to eddies drinking hole in london. wall to wall black people. we must of looked odd drinking there.

there was never any problem but if someone had come over and said a coment on anyone of our mixed race i would look at it NOT as a racest coment but of someone that just wants to start trouble. my reaction would be as little reaction as possable. if he didnt go away i would.(im a lover not a fighter)

if people go round beliving the description of them is an attack on them, be it race religion sexual preferance, what chance have any of us got to live in a cosmopolitan world. its going to have to go down to either we can all live together or we're going to have to section off the world like it was 500 years ago.

bottom line, if someone says sumit describing ones race, its because they want to start trouble. they are just using race to get the ball rolling. if someone takes the race comment as racist they are just racist.

ro284

29th January 2006, 10:48 AM

(quote)
i just didnt think and let rip on his face punched him a couple of times and the guy starts blleding. And guees what all of a sudden im the bad guy who gets thrown out and told that the police have been called. So i legged it
(quote)
Look matey I am sorry the guy called you names, but you should have thought as a responsible adult before breaking the law, and not let rip! And of course you would be the bad guy wouldn’t you, that was assault! In all probability no one else heard the guy call you names, and only saw you assault him, and call the police, I am also sorry you legged it and did not have the balls to phone the police yourself, stand up for your beliefs and rights and explain and try and justify your reason for your over-reaction or physical attack, And if that was a female saying that to you, what would you have done then? Not think let rip? So no sympathy from me I’m afraid, all you needed to say is, NO NEED FOR THAT PAL and pass him by, you chose to punch him!

Do you think there is a possibility this behaviour could lead to racial hatred? Or is this your answer to it?

Racism will always be with us, but it is not just against coloured people, you can call me a Britt if you like, or Britt from Brixton, which I am, I would not cause you physical harm, or post on a car club, you can call me an old duffer, and I would laugh, as I am! even though the truth hurts! Names don’t break bones, everybody get called names,
(quote)
i just didnt think and let rip on his face punched him a couple of times and the guy starts blleding.
(end quote)
(quote)
At least u gave him a good whack
(quote)
personally i would like to stick his head on the end of a very blunt pole.
(end quote)

All sounds a bit barbaric to me!
(quote)
You would have thought that in this day and age societies attitude towards other cultures would have changed for the better...
(end quote)
With the thinking behind the lines above, I don’t think that will be soon!
don’t go into a pub shouting no F**KING PARKING
It’s all words!
Now back to the cars eh

Ianmcurtis

29th January 2006, 10:59 AM

^ My car's blue Bob. What colour is yours mate? Blue one's are better any way ;-).

Bloody car forums........... LOL.

ro284

29th January 2006, 11:03 AM

No Silvers my colour Ian, to match my beard and mobile!
Bob

oldone

29th January 2006, 11:03 AM

Thanx people,mods and friends,you have put some perspective back into this thread with some calm thinking.........

Ianmcurtis

29th January 2006, 11:18 AM

No Silvers my colour Ian, to match my beard and mobile!
Bob

:rollin :rollin :rollin

Oh no!! Not TWO silver bearded old warriors to contend with :eek :eek :god :cool .

;)

oldone

29th January 2006, 11:21 AM

:rollin :rollin :rollin

Oh no!! Not TWO silver bearded old warriors to contend with :eek :eek :god :cool .

;)
Yep..............we are the greybeard silverbacks of this here forum........ :rollin

Ianmcurtis

29th January 2006, 11:24 AM

Thanx people,mods and friends,you have put some perspective back into this thread with some calm thinking.........

The problem some times is that by putting said perspective's and trying to calm things, some folk think you (meaning me) are whimps.

Yeh, right. That's why I was in the RAF for nine years while the IRA were running around blowing up innocent folk ;) .

You don't owe any thanks mate. :cheers

Norton

29th January 2006, 11:47 AM

On a positive note i have travelled all over England with the MRC and have never felt any sort of racism from any of our members whasoever, thankyou guys very much for this wonderful friendly club. Gurj
:Thumbs-up Thats good to hear, long may it continue. There is far too much racism about, there is no place for it here :Nono!

pete sparrow

29th January 2006, 12:50 PM

^ My car's blue Bob. What colour is yours mate? Blue one's are better any way ;-).

Bloody car forums........... LOL.
Hi
Mines multi coloured!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ro284

29th January 2006, 02:25 PM

You got any specks on the car Pete? oh yeah, millions sorry, :Hammer Looks Ab-fab mate,
Thanks for that,
Bob

gsb876

29th January 2006, 02:30 PM

You got any specks on the car Pete? oh yeah, millions sorry, :Hammer Looks Ab-fab mate,
Thanks for that,
Bob

I believe Pete is getting loads of goodies fitted at Dragon as we speak including a single turbo conversion !!!! :2eek

Rixio

29th January 2006, 03:03 PM

Ok im sorry if the last post i made was a little "off" or it sounded too harsh...all im trying to do, is state that the term "paki" is an INSULT plain and simple its not just my oppinion its not just a thought its in the dictionary as RACIAL INSULT.

In Britain at least, Paki could not even be passed off as a medium level insult nowadays - it is pretty much on a par with nigger. A politician who said it publically would almost certainly have to resign, and might well get slung out of his/her party to avoid further embarrassment.

Thx for calming measures btw

Rixio

RobbieRX-7

29th January 2006, 04:59 PM

if i was pakistani, and someone just blatantly said "you ****ing paki" i would be offended. My best mate haresh who i have known for over 15 years is indian, and not once whilst i have been out with him as someone said a racist remark. He is a popular lad and all of his mates are white. He has had name calling about his colour but not very often at all.. he does not let the nob heds get to him because thats all they want.

RobbieRX-7

29th January 2006, 05:06 PM

By the way rixio..i think it`s time you became a member mate..keep this club alive and kicking!! ;) :yes :chat :2eek

Norton

29th January 2006, 05:31 PM

Mines multi coloured!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So there!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ah! the Metalflake Monster! very nice too!!

Ianmcurtis

29th January 2006, 06:23 PM

Hi
Mines multi coloured!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...........and very nice too, parked up next to the BLUE one ;) .

mullins

29th January 2006, 07:51 PM

Threads gone off topic, close?

pete sparrow

29th January 2006, 08:31 PM

Ah! the Metalflake Monster! very nice too!!
Hi Norton
Thank you for your kind words about my car!!!!
She'll be back on the track this season!!!!!!!!!!! No prisoners!!!!!!!!!
Gurj is correct!!!!!! She'll be running a single T88 turbo with water spray injection and every other mod to make the tart even faster!!!!!!!
I'll probably stall her off the line on my first run,but who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!
See you all on the strip!!!!!!!!!!Hopefully????????????
Gurj mate,run yours against mine this year,badest of the bad!!!!!!!
Cheers
PETE

gsb876

29th January 2006, 09:27 PM

Hi Norton
Thank you for your kind words about my car!!!!
She'll be back on the track this season!!!!!!!!!!! No prisoners!!!!!!!!!
Gurj is correct!!!!!! She'll be running a single T88 turbo with water spray injection and every other mod to make the tart even faster!!!!!!!
I'll probably stall her off the line on my first run,but who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!
See you all on the strip!!!!!!!!!!Hopefully????????????
Gurj mate,run yours against mine this year,badest of the bad!!!!!!!
Cheers
PETE

Me too scarred to break something to run the rx matey :2eek trying to sort out some water injection so might not be totally out of the question just yet :King

FD3SNuttah

30th January 2006, 11:01 AM

where im from theres a fair bit of racism,

when i was at school (about 14 years old) id get that racist jibe all the the time from these kids i had never even spoken to. they werent satisfied that i didnt rise up to it, so they started getting violent, one day a bunch of em kicked my ass pretty badly. id miss school or avoid being "seen" just in case i lost any more teeth.

one day i saw them walking down the street, in fear i grabbed the nearest thing which was half a brick and hid behind a bush, when they got close i just thought to myself "i run away from these ****ers evrey day im gonna just ****ing kill em" i jumped out and smashed the brick over their ring leaders head and started kicking and punching everyone. he had to have 20 stiches and i broke one of the other kids nose. after that they didnt say anything to me and i walked around with a knife in case they decided to get me back.

I moved to bristol a year later and i never got into ANY trouble from racism.

If u swear at me call me anything you like then im not bothered. call me a paki in a malicious way and its like a switch, i just hope i dont kill someone one day.. if those kids hadnt battered me at school then i wouldnt be like this now.

FD3SNuttah

30th January 2006, 11:15 AM

sorry best actually say what my point is. kinda went off on one there!

Yeh you shouldnt be racist. not really applicable these days in a multi cultural society -for me when anyone is racist its kind of like a challenge - for me - its to prove im not weak.

Maybe i should ignore it and just walk away, tried that - as my experience shows this only makes things worse.

If everyone stood up for themselves then we would respect each other more.

<--rYaN-->

30th January 2006, 03:47 PM

I think it gets massively blown out of proportion these days. A lot of the time it is meant as an insult and a lot of the time its meant as desciptive. If i said "my mates a paki" i wouldnt mean that as an insult, it is a desciption and short for pakistani. If i lived in any other country in the world and someone said "he's a Brit" or "my friends white" i wouldnt care less.

It all depends on the context its used in. At the end of the day you could insult someone in any way imaginable, i've been insulted all my life about my height, the fact i wear glasses, anything as petty as that, none of which i can change, just like your race, i've become thick skinned to it.

Something that really gets my back up and i think incites more racial tension and segregation is how the difference in races is used. If a coloured person is assaulted by a white person then the media suddenly jump on the "racist attack" bandwagon. Dont get me wrong fights occur because of differences in races, but that doenst mean they all do. Another thing was the teacher who got fired because he asked a black kid to write on the blackboard!! (are we to live in fear of the names of colours in case they get used against us and we are accused of being racist??)

Another example was they were trying to ban the nursery rhyme bah-bah black sheep from schools, a song that has been around for god knows how long. It was white people trying to ban it, and it was a black rights group who stood up and said "no, thats rediculous, keep it". I think the politics have gone mad today.

At the music awards etc, i have seen quite a few black artists receive awards and go up and say "this is for all the black people out there" etc. To be honest i find that totally unacceptable making it seem like it is just black people who listen to that type of music and segregating people like that. If eminem went and said "i do this for all the whites" there would be uproar in the media!

To be honest if someone called me a "fcuking BRIT" then i wouldnt be insulted. Im from there, i cant change that, and i am not ashamed of it. Call me white, a cracker, whatever, wont bother me. I think tone or the spitefulness in someones voice that is more offensive than the words themselves. And on the calling a black person a nigger issue, black rap artists say "nigger this, nigger that" all the way through there lyrics, and its fine for them to call each other that, but if someone of a different race says it, even in a friendly way then we are branded racist. Its like if i called my mate a stupid cracker or something all my life and someone of a different ethnicity joined on the "cool slang" bandwagon and called it me, i wouldnt be bother in the slightest.

Dont get me wrong im not racist at all, but i get ****ed off with people who use the fact they are different when theres such hard work being done to remove the cultural barriers. I live in Liverpool city centre, and i am white and there has been many a time i have gone into the r'n'b sections of certain bars and clubs that is populated almost entirely by colored people, and the looks me and my friends get sometimes can only be called confrontational. Racism works both ways.

At the university there are societys for black people/chinese people/indian people etc, but none for white people. Personally i dont think that right as that can cause racial segregation and can cause bad feelings towards that group etc, i've seen it first hand many a time.

Racism is out there, in many many forms, but a lot of it is taken out of context, and a lot of it is caused by the ridiculous politics of it out there and a sort of "over-prevention" of the issue.

Sorry for the rant, but it is a very complex issue, saying races/colours insultingly is unnaceptable, avoiding the words and colours completely though i think is wrong as well as a lot of the time its not meant insultingly.

Ryan

Norton

30th January 2006, 06:14 PM

I think it gets massively blown out of proportion these days.... Racism is out there, in many many forms, but a lot of it is taken out of context, and a lot of it is caused by the ridiculous politics of it out there and a sort of "over-prevention" of the issue. Ryan
I dont really agree with you that it blown out of proportion but i see that you also acknowledge that 'Racism is out there'... i think that anyone who denies that racism exists is simply burying their head in the sand.
I do, however, agree that some of the OTT 'Political Correctness' does not help at all and only serves to play into the hands of racists who use it to try to justify their arguments.

naming race or colour insultingly is unnaceptable, avoiding race and colour completely though i think is wrong as well
I agree with you there, you shouldnt have to 'skirt around the subject', some people do get 'touchy' about it too easily.

gsb876

30th January 2006, 07:31 PM

Very interesting views Ryan,

I think overall you are right to the extent that sometimes people do play up to the racism card ie the "this is for all the black people out there" and so forth.

I think it sometimes is branded about too much these days but also we shouldn't forget why the segregation began with the history of slavery and whatnot. Asking people to completely forget is asking too much at this moment in time.

I think as the future comes and there is more of a mix of cultures there will be less racism and more understanding of one another.

I am a Sikh and throughout history we have not gotten on with Muslims as is a well known situation, however when i recently went down to London i had Freddy in the car with me who is a muslim and we had a great chat on loads of stuff including religion and had no arguments or fall outs as we respect each others perspective and views.

I remember at school there were 4 of us that were very good friends and we never realised until the last year of school that we were all different religions and never once had a fall out, there was me (Sikh), Qasim (Muslim), Simon (Christian) and Raj (Hindu) so can we all get on ??? of course :wave

t2rew

30th January 2006, 08:16 PM

we shouldn't forget why the segregation began with the history of slavery and whatnot. Asking people to completely forget is asking too much at this moment in time.

i have heard of this before so it must still be on peoples minds. the thing is it was a long time ago. are there any living ex-slaves around today ? why is it still right up there as a reason why we cant get along now. is it really asking too much?

history shows us that people have never got on. if there are more than two people there will always be arguments weather the subject is race or the best colour for curtains in the bedroom. if people go around with a chip on their shoulder about something that happend to their ancestors they are the ones that are basicly refusing to move on into the 21st century and continue to be segregated.

i bet if i looked hard enough into my past i could find that my family were slaves but im not looking for an excuse not to get along with anyone.

RYAN, i agree with your post.

FD3SNuttah

30th January 2006, 09:48 PM

Its easier to blame others for problems or consider others weak and inferior, all just to make yourself feel better about who you are. thats what racism is about.

i can see what some of you are saying about the political correctness of stuff, some of its just not needed!

anyway Im going to change my ways after reading this thread, no more beating the crap out of the stupid racists!!

gsb876

30th January 2006, 10:07 PM

i have heard of this before so it must still be on peoples minds. the thing is it was a long time ago. are there any living ex-slaves around today ? why is it still right up there as a reason why we cant get along now. is it really asking too much?

history shows us that people have never got on. if there are more than two people there will always be arguments weather the subject is race or the best colour for curtains in the bedroom. if people go around with a chip on their shoulder about something that happend to their ancestors they are the ones that are basicly refusing to move on into the 21st century and continue to be segregated.

i bet if i looked hard enough into my past i could find that my family were slaves but im not looking for an excuse not to get along with anyone.

RYAN, i agree with your post.

Not my view, i am trying to understand why some people react the way they do.

As for history, you should not forget how we got to be where we all are, everyone is proud of their heritage and should not be expected to forget all the bad / good things that have come to pass.

OLSKOOLROTAR

31st January 2006, 11:45 AM

Variety is the spice of life. Cant really add much else to that.

:wave

Jase

Jake

31st January 2006, 12:16 PM

A few years ago I was walking with my girlfriend at the time who was half Jamican and half Irish through an area of Notts, I'm mostly white with a little Mexican and Irish but I look nothing but white. A car of black lads drove past and shouted out 'what the f**k do you think you're doing with him?'. It's never great when things like that happen but I just think the best thing to do is just chill and don't let it affect you. I could have got annoyed and shouted something back but I just don't see the point.

I used to work with an Indian lad who was seeing a white girl, he was telling me about the time he got some white lads shouting at him, calling him p*ki and things like that but he just ignored it (and he's a big lad, 6 2" and stocky with it) and kept on with what he was doing. You're almost in a no win situation, if you beat the :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: out of them you've still achieved nothing, they won't have changed their views in the slightest just because you've beaten them up and you've potentially let yourself in for a lot of trouble. Worst case you start and get beaten to a pulp in which case you've still achieved nothing. Some people have a lot of nagative energy and they like to project it onto others to make themselves feel better, the best thing you can do is reject that energy when they send it your way and don't let them affect you.

Archbish

31st January 2006, 12:31 PM

OJ's World of Truth begins...

1) everyone has prejudices based on previous experiences - be it race, colour, height, voice, hair colour, job type, car driven, even shoes worn. You do, live with it, it's just how it is.

2) the anti-nazi league is as bad as bnp. You cannot force peoples thoughts - you have as much right to be anti-racist (a form or prejudice) as racist.

3) You cannot legislate against thought. If someone is racist (sexist, shoeist, etc), you can't tell them they can't be. You can, however, attempt to re-educate them to point out the folly of their ways. You can't tell someone they are bad without showing them how to be right!!

4) Racism (carism, drinkism) is only a problem when acted apon. If those prejudices are kept personal, and do not adversely affect a third party - there is no issue. I think the problem lies when those of one ethnicity have conflict with those of another ethnicity. As has been discussed in length on this thread, people get along - most are too busy eating crisps or buying pants to worry about the skin colour of another.

I am a big fan of black humour and tasteless jokes, but only funny ones... I am proud to be English, and I am proud of my heritage. But English is a state of mind. I am ambivalent about being IC1, however, I'll describe my black friend dave as "Black Dave", my ginger friend dave as "Ginger Dave", big dave as "Big Dave" and rugby dave as "PaintBrush" (ok, bad example, but that's his nickname), because those are defining characteristics!! I am a tall IC1, with dark hair, glasses, reasonably muscular build, and a fabulous taste in clothes and shoes. That is how I won't get confused with the other Bish's of the world.

Now back to my crisps and pants purchase....

(btw - while working in Ghana, I learned that Ghanaians sold Ghanaians to the Dutch for slavery purposes... It ain't a white disease. Also, speaking to a woman who was working in the same building as me, she told me about meeting an American woman who's ancestor was taken to America as a slave. The american woman told her she was so lucky to have stayed in Ghana, keeping her heritage. The Ghanaian told the American she would swap in a heartbeat to have dental, health, car, house, central heating, security, travel, clothes... Slavery was bad for those enslaved, but for their descendants, doesn't seem that bad as deals go...)

oldone

31st January 2006, 02:48 PM

Still to have big discussions with you 'Bish'............ :Typing

Norton

31st January 2006, 02:56 PM

OJ's World of Truth begins... everyone has prejudices based on previous experiences - be it race, colour, height, voice, hair colour, job type, car driven, even shoes worn. You do, live with it, it's just how it is.

Yes, that is true, but to my mind that is not the same thing as racism. Racism is destructive and loathsome.

Archbish

31st January 2006, 03:16 PM

OK - we're onto semantics *grin* From the Cambridge English Dictionary (the OED charges online) we have:
racism
noun [U] (UK OLD-FASHIONED racialism) DISAPPROVING
the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own

That's what I'm on about. Your definition is completely valid, and as such is an insidious disease that mustn't be tolerated any less than any other form of prejudice resulting in oppression and violence

Norton

31st January 2006, 03:34 PM

racism, the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own
hmm...interesting definition, im not sure about the first bit, to some degree people's qualities ARE influenced by their race (our appearance for a start). I have always seen racism as being more to do with the second part of that definition... believing that the people of your race are superior to the people of another race.

Archbish

31st January 2006, 05:20 PM

Racism is destructive and loathsome.... I have always seen racism as being more to do with the second part of that definition... believing that the people of your race are superior to the people of another race
but you should be free to think that - in the same way you should be free to think the world is flat, babies are delivered by storks, and boingers are best. You mustn't control people's beliefs - however, through education, proof and exposure to the unfamiliar, all of the incorrect assumptions above can be corrected!! *grin*

I don't see a problem with the phrases "Barry ain't a bad singer for a black fella", or "Larry is a pretty good dancer for a white guy", in the same way I think the phrases "you *black/ginger/fat/tall/bald/bent* :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:" are equally bad. Look at the interaction of Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor in their films together - much of the humour is about race and appearance. it's the type of action based on the belief that is the difference between acceptable and unacceptable social behaviour - and in many cases that also depends on the recipients personal beliefs.

Personally, I don't think you can get twisted about being treated in a manner you would treat another, and I don't think you should treat someone in a way you would not want to be treated. Karma and all that...

Norton

31st January 2006, 06:09 PM

Unfortunately people ARE free to think that (their race is superior) resulting in war and misery the world over... there is no thought police but that shouldnt stop us from condemning racism.

Of course, The British Empire has a 'great' tradition of believing that we are superior to other races.

I have no problem at all with you calling your m8s 'Black Dave', 'Ginger Dave', 'Big Dave' and 'PaintBrush' LOL (you know a lot of Daves). As Ryan said, avoiding race and colour completely is wrong as well, thats just PC gone mad.

oldone

31st January 2006, 07:51 PM

How long are you peeps gonna carry on with this boring subject ? What are you wishing for,...a solution ?...never....give it a rest..... :cool

ro284

31st January 2006, 07:56 PM

(quote) RIXIO
i just didnt think and let rip on his face punched him a couple of times and the guy starts blleding.
(end quote)

Violence is no more acceptable than racism

nuff said!
Bob

oldone

31st January 2006, 08:00 PM

(quote) RIXIO
i just didnt think and let rip on his face punched him a couple of times and the guy starts blleding.
(end quote)

Violence is no more acceptable than racism

nuff said!
Bob

Please folks,enough on this thread.......I might have to respond.

Norton

31st January 2006, 08:35 PM

How long are you peeps gonna carry on with this boring subject ? What are you wishing for,...a solution ?...never....give it a rest..... :cool
If you find it boring, dont read it.

oldone

31st January 2006, 09:35 PM

If you find it boring, dont read it.
I HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO READ YOUR POST,SO YOU BEING THE GENTLEMAN,TAKE THE TIME TO READ MY POST.I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN KIND AND RESPECTFULL TO ALL AND SUNDRY.I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HONEST AND TRUTHFULL,...............

Nice for you to say Norton......"If your'e bored"......Im sure most of you peeps have lived a very sheltered life here in the UK.Youre perception of racism is some white guy calling an asian a paki or a black guy a nigger.....correct me if Im wrong.
Where I come from wars were fought in the name of racism and protecting what is white and what belongs to white.It was a war fought on religion and against communism and all that stood against christianity.The black people felt they were oppressed from the regime of white people who ran the country.They sought the help of the commi east,i.e. china,russia.... in the west i.e. cuba and friends...... in europe i.e.holland,belgium,england,france etc.These so called liberation fighters were funded by all sorts to overthrow the regime of the country.They bombed and maimed innocent people of all colour and creed in the cities.In the rural areas they planted landmines and anti personal mines without any discrimination.
They planted limpet mines in dustbins and in popular family resturants i.e Wimpy bars etc.The results devastating to all colours and denominations.
The feeling of hatred was so bad that you got a taste of 'steel' in your mouth when you saw a person of differant colour.You were armed at all times and ready for immenant attack on your home\business\family etc.
I was one of the unfortunate ones that was trained to the highest level in anti terrorism,urban warefare,conventional warefare,vip protection etc.I was one of the unfortunate ones to have taken lives in the name of the struggle,against the communists and its allies,to overthrow my country.I was one of the unfortunate ones to have chased the cubans,the chinese,the russian advisors out of my neighbouring(sp) countries where they were planning and plotting the overthrow of my beloved fatherland.Flying in a helicopter to do cross border raids on the enemy was no differant to you driving to work.I am one of the unfortunate ones that cant sleep without help now,I am one of the unfortunates who is depended on.....................

THIS WAS ALL FOR THE SAKE OF RACISM,RELIGION AND ....

So **** you Norton and all who think they are in the know and all those who think they have earned the right to judge.I know whats going on in the world.I have been there ,taken the lives,done it good and got all the medals.....

So if the club wants to ban me so what......you have ****ed on the wrong leg my friend.There are issues in the world that is best left alone........

Regards
Era

Norton

31st January 2006, 09:42 PM

We all have the right to an opinion.

oldone

31st January 2006, 09:54 PM

................................................qu ite happy not to know you...

gsb876

31st January 2006, 09:58 PM

As you say Era very unfortunate but there has to be someone who does the job you had to sorry to say.

South Africa was / is a very sad affair in the way it has progressed for decades but hopefully will in the future be better for all.

I deffo cannot relate to what you had to deal with, sounds very sad but it was your job and i guess puts a different spin on life when you have to take one. Most of us will never know of this feeling and i hope by moving to the UK you will be more comfortable.

See you at the AGM if you're still coming down bro,

Gurj :Thumbs-up

oldone

31st January 2006, 10:14 PM

You are right on all accounts,the best thing i ever did was retire,put my experience to use,put my guns away,and embrace the ones i love,the ones which lived a life parrallel to mine for 17 years.Only now do i appreciate the real meaning of loving humanity,saving instead of taking,creating instead destroying ................being humble and thankful that i have what i have everyday when i awake....... :yes

Ianmcurtis

31st January 2006, 10:33 PM

Hey Era, my sentiments are as per Gurj mate ;) , so I'm not going to dwell.

I'd tried to lighten the thread up earlier on, seemed to have done the trick for a good while, some thoughtful post's I thought but, these sort of issues are way bigger than a 'bloody car forum' and whilst folk often feel the need to 'get things off their chest', perhaps our club forum is not the right place for all subjects. Maybe one of the womens weekly mags 'auntie' pages next time :eek :rollin

I'm probably wrong, but I think Era could see where this was going and his 'boring' remark was a polite way of saying 'drop the subject'.

:cheers

oldone

31st January 2006, 10:38 PM

Archbish

1st February 2006, 08:12 AM

AND THEN THERE'S THOSE RED 7'S RUINING IT ALL FOR US BLACK 7'S ((Mine may look purple, but it's soul is black!!)).

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE BLUE ONES...

iaint

1st February 2006, 09:14 AM

I like to think that most of us have opinions formed through our experience, not just on this subject but on life (apart from those too lazy to form opinions but be spoon-fed them by the media).

We can place value on the opinions of others and view them as more valid than ours as their experience is somewhow more 'real' than ours. It would be tempting to say that Era's experience is worth more in forming an opinion of racism than someone like me who has lived a cost, shelterd and middle-classed life here in ole Blightly.

It'd be right in some circumstances - if we were forming opinions on combat then I have opinion and supposition, Era ahs experience. Using South Africa as an example - I can't have the same experience as someone who lived through Apartheid although I can have an opinion.

I don't think that any of us have yet voiced the opinion that acting on our prejudices (racial, educational, gender, wtahever) is acceptable and I'd hope that none of us would, in the context of this forum, act on our prejucdices.

For now We'll keep this thread running but remember the forum rules. This is a happy place - no personal insults. Full candour and ratinal argument is appreciated though and having an opinion contrary to the prevailing wind is okay; just keep to the rules.

Something I think is worthy of discussion and can air some interesting views:

My opinion is that for something to be racist there has to be the intent to use race to offend. The legal view, as set out in recent case law, is that comments/action merely has to be seen as racist by anyone for it to be deemed racist. i.e. that it's how I perceive a comment or ation that makes it racist. Seems wrong to me. Discuss...

Norton

1st February 2006, 09:50 AM

Discuss...
Sorry, im not allowed to... my opinion is worthless.

As for Apartheid in South Africa, that is a whole other subject which i freely admit i am unqualified to discuss. All i understand about it (from speaking to a couple of South Africans i know) is that.. (and im sure i will be corrected if im wrong).... things are set to go from bad to worse over there.

Ianmcurtis

1st February 2006, 10:10 AM

Something I think is worthy of discussion and can air some interesting views:

My opinion is that for something to be racist there has to be the intent to use race to offend. The legal view, as set out in recent case law, is that comments/action merely has to be seen as racist by anyone for it to be deemed racist. i.e. that it's how I perceive a comment or ation that makes it racist. Seems wrong to me. Discuss...

For me, it's just more political correctness gone mad, bleeding heart do gooder's and the like just making things worse. Now, how come I am made to feel uncomfortable to say I'm English? WTH is that all about? I've got to put my nationality as British when I fill the entry forms when going to the USA, amongst other things :Grrr .

What about all the racist forms we all fill in, you know the ones that put you in a certain ethnic group....e.g British, White European. British, Pakistani. British, Muslim etc? How come there's not a box for British, English?

Where does this thread stop!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

bnaellis

1st February 2006, 10:53 AM

Personally I grew up hating white people because I suffered a high amount of racist abuse. It doesn't make me wrong for reacting like this people are different. people say names don't hurt or don't mean anything or the ones who react are just as immature as the ones who said it. But you cannot evaluate the hurt it causes by being called names and songs being sung about you because of your colour or cultural background as a black man, if your are not black it's easier for non black to say just ignore because you don't hurt the same way a black person would. I personally have been chased by gangs of people and been attacked on quite a few occasions during my childhood and youth because of my colour. By the time I got to around 16,17 and I had white friends I then realised that not everyone was the same and I no longer had an hatred for white people from all the years of abuse I suffered. But my mentality towards white people was directly proportional to my experiences with white people, not because I was racist but just down to cause and affect. I think we don't really understand the affect of words sometimes. I call a man a stupid :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: it won't have the same affect on him as it would if I said it too a woman. The only way a man could fully appreciate the full insult is for him to be a woman and not a man he would then take it as a more personal insult.
Was the guys reaction to being racially & physically abused wrong ? well the best way to judge really would be for you to be the person have his skin colour and culture and then we would be maybe in a better position to judge.
You can't walk up to a police officer in the street push him and call him a pig and expect not to be nicked, so why people think it's ok to walk up to a someone and call them a f***ing paki or nigger, or whatever they say and not expect a licking is beyond me. I think the only thing he can be held at fault for is posting it on a public forum, as all it does is open a can of worms.
It reminds me a bit about the man who complkained to police about his house being vandalised and burgled, they did nothing, one day he was more provoked than at other timnes because he is fed up of putting up with the same kind of torment and abuse, someone breaks into his house on the wrong day and he shoots them and gets banged up, yet he's the one made to look like the real culprit.
At the end of the day people are different they react different some have thicker skins than others, some people take longer to boil over than others.
Maybe the one good thing that came out of this is that it will probably be the last time the person who made the remarks verbally or physically abuses another person from pakistan.
By the way I don't like volvo drivers, their road bullies and they never give way :Grrr

Carl

1st February 2006, 11:23 AM

I do really think that this thread should be closed.
I have read it through more than once.
I have suffered racism badly when I lived in another country.No need to go into details.
Our club members seem to be very good at getting on with one another which is how it should be,and for the most part this thread has been very good with a fair selection of balanced opinion,no more words could express that in any greater way.
This club is first and foremost a rotary car club,and since we don't have a problem with racism in the club we ought to leave the thread as it is now.
Our efforts should be focused more on getting on with one another in the club and making the club even more productive.
I know that sometimes there are spirited comments and criticism on here,I have had my fair share of it,but I know that was not rascist and can handle it no problem.
Regards
Carl