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oilman
30th November 2005, 11:30 AM
I read so much stuff on the internet about Synthetic Oils that is simply not true so I felt it was time to tell the truth rather than accept the myth.

So in future when you see someone state any of these, please do me a favour and point them at this thread!

Synthetic motor oils damage seals:

Complete Nonsense! Any oil seals made after 1975 or thereabouts will be entirely compatible with any type of synthetic engine oil. (The same goes for synthetic gear oils and transmission oil seals.) It must be understood that everything associated with lubrication is thoroughly tested. The major oil manufacturers do not make oils that attack seals; seal manufacturers ensure that their products function correctly with modern lubricants.

Synthetic oils are too thin:

It is true that the best synthetic blends can be low viscosity (0w-20 for example), but they do not have to be! It is also true that the latest engines are designed to run on thin oil, which improves power output and fuel consumption. Even so, thicker synthetic based grades (10w-50, 15w-50, 20w-50etc) are available for air-cooled motors, older engines, or severe high temperature conditions. These grades can also benefit rebuilt classic engines dating back to the 1940s.

Synthetics mean higher oil usage:

The complete opposite of the truth. Oil consumption in well-maintained modern engines is mainly down to the oil evaporating at high temperatures. Synthetic base oils (specially the PAO and ester types) are very resistant to evaporation loss even in low viscosity blends, so oil consumption is minimised. Obviously, engines with worn valve guides, defective seals and worn piston rings will use oil regardless, so there is no point in using expensive synthetics as an ‘old banger lube’.

Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils:

All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.)

Synthetic oils produce sludge:

Well honestly, this is just totally daft. All synthetic bases are more resistant to oxidation than mineral oil, and sludge is largely due to oxidation. In any case, all motor oils intended for road use meet the higher API specs such as SH, SJ, SL and diesel equivalents. One of the main reasons for introducing the API specs back in the 1950s was to deal with oil sludge problems. All high-spec oils run very clean, especially synthetics.

Synthetic oils cannot be used with catalytic converters:

‘Cats’ will perform more efficiently and last longer if synthetic based engine oil is used. Their lower volatility (see 3 above) means that less oil reaches the combustion chambers via crankcase ventilation, so there are less harmful ash residues from burnt oil to de-activate the catalyst matrix.

Synthetic oils can void warranties:

People who make statements such as this never define the type of synthetic, thus revealing their ignorance. Provided that an oil meets or exceeds the API and viscosity ranges specified in the handbook, the warranty will not be affected. (By law, OEMs cannot insist that a particular brand of oil must be used to maintain warranty.)

Synthetic oils will last forever:

The better synthetic blends will certainly last longer*, especially in high performance or high annual mileage situations, but ‘forever’ is not on, simply because contaminants such as soot, and acid gasses from traces of sulphur in the fuel degrade the oil.
(*Provided that a very shear resistant VI improver polymer is used in the oil formulation to keep the viscosity up to spec. This point is often forgotten.

Synthetic oils are too expensive:

True, for older vehicles that use a lot of oil or are almost ready for the scrap yard. For cars that are worth maintaining, the right types of synthetic oil are a cost-effective way of retaining ‘as new’ performance, low fuel consumption, and reducing maintenance costs. (See 6 above, for example. ‘Cats’ aren’t cheap!)

Cheers
Simon

ro284
30th November 2005, 11:41 AM
Excelent info there Simon, Top job Thankyou,
(quote)
Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils:

All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.)
(end quote)

This is helpfull as i was wondering if it would do any harm when changing gearbox or diff oil, if the new oil would be contaminated in any way with the dregs of the old stuff we can never completly get out!

Thanks again Bob

nikp
30th November 2005, 12:24 PM
Also - if we're dispelling rumours...

I have heard (not sure where from) that that Castrol Magnatec stuff is bad for rotaries. Is this true?

oilman
30th November 2005, 12:30 PM
That may be down to quality or viscosity rather than anything else.

Cheers
Simon

Carl
30th November 2005, 05:51 PM
Hi Simon,
I have seen synthetic oils that have damaged certain specific oil seals in Mazda rotary engines.
These have been race engines,I have changed the particular seals that have failed for a different material and used the same synthetic oil with no further probs.The seals in question are over the counter stock replacements from Mazda and are still in production.The different material replacements are made for me.
Using a specific mineral oil that I have found works I have had no problems with these parts in stock engines.Also no problems with engine failures or wear that is unusual.
Regards
Carl

Ricco_04
30th November 2005, 10:00 PM
I have a running engine (from 1990 TII FC) that has been run on full synthetic over 15 years with as near as dammit 120,000 miles on. I'll swap it for a nice new one if anyone wants it purely for research!!!! :D :D


Well it's always worth a try!! :chat


Oh and it will be run on mineral oil when I get it rebuilt! :yes


How about that new Castrol Eadge stuff? :confused:

oilman
8th December 2005, 11:33 AM
I must admit that I do have my thoughts about mineral oil "shortening" the life of these engines as it does not afford the same levels of lubrication or protection.

Controversial topic and I am aware that "early" engines had seal compatability problems but that was 20 years ago!

I wouldn't mind betting that a rotary engines life would be extended on the correct grade of a decent synthetic oil (not a petroleum based "hydrocracked" one) due to its superior lubrication.

Just my 2p worth!

Cheers
Simon

mullins
8th December 2005, 03:32 PM
Also - if we're dispelling rumours...

I have heard (not sure where from) that that Castrol Magnatec stuff is bad for rotaries. Is this true?

naa :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:! I've ran it in my RX-3 since it was rebuilt 3 years ago and it's still going strong according to the new owner so I can't see how it's "bad" for Rotaries. (I always run premix though so I'm not burning it)

Newera
8th December 2005, 04:26 PM
There are specially formulated synthetics for use on all rotaries, but unfortunately these are only available in Japan.

Mine's been run solely on Knight Sports 10W50 fully synthetic since getting a complete new exchange Mazda engine 3 years, 25,000 km ago.

oilman
8th December 2005, 04:45 PM
Indeed there are and it's no secret that they are pao/ester blends.

I spoke to Silkolene about this a while back and posted my discussion on these boards. Yes it's official, the right synthetics do not damage rotary engines is what the chemist told me having developed synthetic oils for US spy drones equipped with rotary engines.

I use synthetic in mine.

Cheers
Simon

Newera
8th December 2005, 04:52 PM
Simon,

Interesting! Do you have fully synthetic oil and if so what's the grading, etc?

Cheers

Miguel

oilman
8th December 2005, 04:58 PM
The best formulation (75% pao / 25% ester) is the Silkolene PRO range which are as follows:

Pro S 5w-40
Pro S 10w-50
Pro R 15w-50

Depending on the state of tune/use I would suggest the following as a guide.

Cars running oil temps up to 120degC = 5w-40
Cars running oil temps above 120degC = 10w-50 / 15w-50

Cheers
Simon