Mazda USA revises "that" number

[MikeLMR]

yep the US RX8 now officaly makes 238hp instead of the 247hp advertised. I think once people get over the fact that HP is just a number the RX8 will still be a hit.
Some people really need to sit down and think what really matters 0-60 the same top speed the same (cars tested were 238hp apparently) and a theoretical number that is achieved for a few seconds each time you take it to the red line drops a bit.

I can see why people are having a problem as they expect to get what they pay for but I think it shows how much people are obsessed with numbers and specs on a car. The engine is still well up on the last NA 88hp (?!) and it meets the new emmissions standards. but due to an overinflated number on the sales books (Mazda USA's fault ?? the Euro spec seems to be about the same power output now) its deemed a failure by all the rotary haters :(

Mike

[craig]

deemed a failure by all the rotary haters//

They will be proved wrong the amount of interest from the average man and not to forget the girls on the street love the look of this car they don't give to hoots about bhp,fule yes but everything else is just nothing to them realy,if it looks good and that it does and drives well then it will be a winner :cool

[Mark Ide]

Originally posted by MikeLMR The engine is still well up on the last NA 88hp (?!) Mike [/B]

Mike my EGI puts out a lot more than 88hp!!!

[MikeLMR]

88bhp MORE than the EGI

[conehead]

Craig, I'm not a rotary hater but I have cancelled my RX8 order.

I'm afraid there's no "package" (no matter how brilliantly styled) that I'd accept that generates only 231ps from 14-20mpg and only just manages to squeeze under the emissions barrier. It's not the max-power alone, or the economy alone, or the emissions alone...it's all 3.

Perhaps in America where they don't give a damn about the environment (viz. Kyoto agreement and recent repeal of environmental restrictions on power generation plants), and they're fuel prices are half those in europe...then I'd happily accept 231ps and sod the consumption.

But those figures just don't stack up in the UK...not now the new FSI technology is claiming to break to 50pgm for a 150+ bhp 4 pot petrol engine.

I don't hate rotaries, I hate waste...this seems like a waste...I had hope Mazda could really make this a viable alternative...personally, I don't think they have.

C.

[MikeLMR]

The renesis meets the new Euro 4 emissions regs ... drive an RX8 through London and the exhaust gasses at idle will be cleaner than the air going in the intake! I don't see how that is poluting



Mike " 14-20mpg , 115hp on a good day & emmissions that won't pass even the '73 test standards :D "

[conehead]

Mike,

Yep, it does meet euro 4...but it had to be detuned by 20ps (if not more) to meet it.

Feel free to wrap your mouth round the exhaust of an 8 if you feel it's so clean.

Seriously though and in all honesty...I don't see how you can really defend those basic figures...except to say "I don't care".

But, how are Mazda supposed to tempt me (a hot hatch'er) into buying their brand when I can cruise at 90mph all day in my current 200ps vehicle and still get 34mpg.


Ciaran.

[MikeLMR]

obviously people are buying the car becuase they like it and want somthing a little different ... Mazda won't be aiming to sell millions of RX8's so I presume they will be relying on the novelty value to sell enough to make some money and raise their profile as a company that leads and not follows the crowd.

Sounds like more than enough to tempt enough people away from the quick but common hot hatches etc. etc.

I'll pass on the exhaust pipe thanks , it may be clean but it is devoid of oxygen and probably picked up some nasty heavy metals from those god awfull catalytic converters the governent thinks is a good idea (yes lets strip mine rainforests to find the metals to make these environment saving devices instead of persuing lean burn and high comp. engines :rolleyes: )

[craig]

To me if ya that bothered about emissions get an Electric car

[garygfx]

I agree with Conehead, we need to be responsible with regards to emissions and fuel consuption. I moved out of the "big smoke" last year and I really notice a difference, plus my hayfever has stopped! :)

I'm in a dilema because Mazda have created this fantastic looking car with some unqiue features and a good spec for the money. While it may be exciting to have a very different engine to all the other cars on the road, I don't understand why it's meants to be better than a piston engine? I may be missing some techincal stats so please fill me in if that's the case. Below I'm comparing it to a piston based engine of the same power output:

For:
* smaller
* lighter
* less vibrations
* quieter
* more reliable(?)
* novilty factor

Against:
* higher emissions
* less mpg
* regular oil checks and top ups
* AA/RAC are less knowledgable if you break down
* lacks throbbing roaring sound of equiv piston engines (personal taste)

This may sound like blasphomy to rotary fans, but if Mazda put a 2.5 litre, 230bhp, 25-30mpg piston engine in there I'd slap down a deposit now. Please don't take my post the wrong way, I'm very happy to listen to other opinions, facts and discussions. I'm so close to putting down a deposit.

[Deathknell]

Originally posted by garygfx

Against:
* higher emissions
* less mpg
* regular oil checks and top ups
* AA/RAC are less knowledgable if you break down
* lacks throbbing roaring sound of equiv piston engines (personal taste)



If these are your main concerns by another BMW :)

No doubt you will be seeing plenty of the AA/RAC, who will have plenty of knowledge about your BM :D

[garygfx]

The first 4 of my 5 "againsts" are facts, not a personal preference. Are these not worthwhile concerns? I think they are. Please hear me out first. :) I really like the design of the RX8 and have been harvesting the Net for pics and info over the past few weeks as I've fallen in love with the car. I'm trying not to be blinded by that and am doing my best to keep a clear head. No rose tinted glasses, although I feel them sliding down over my eyes every now and then, especially when I tell friends about this amazing car. My mobile phone is loaded with photos and video clips!

BTW, my BMW is 4.5 years old and hasn't had a single failure/problem. Reliability is excellent, but any car can break down anywhere. Bad luck can strike even care-free rotary owners! ;) If it does then there's a higher chance you'll be towed home instead of a roadside fix.

[Deathknell]

Yeah alrighty, but all that is extremely different about this car is the rotary engine. I don't think the AA/RAC mechanic is going to be stripping the engine and replacing the rotors by the side of the road. All problems that are likely to be able to be fixed by the side of the road will be no different from any other car.

This isn't exactly the first car ever to have a rotary engine, they have been around a while. If you get a mechanic that has any sort of sense he'll be able to deal with the fact that your car doesn't contain any camshafts. If he can't, he is unlikely to be able to fix your problem no matter what engine your car has.

If you want lower emissions buy a Toyota Prius or Honda Insight and don't buy a performance car they all have higher emissions.

If you want higher MPG get a diesel, this will also have a nice "throbbing roaring sound" even when idling and thus kill two birds.

And seeing as you never check the oil ;) why would checking the oil be a problem? Seeing as the RX-8 doesn't only have a little light but an oil pressure gauge too. :D

[garygfx]

Honda, Toyota, diesel... show me one that's a good looking as the RX8! :) Okay, the new Jag shown at the Frankfurt motor show is the only exception that has it all; 50mpg, stunning looks. But that must be 2 years off, if Jaguar carry through with it.

[Deathknell]

IMO there isn't one as good looking as the RX-8. But I like the rotary engine. :cool

You apparently don't. It doesn't make the right sound for you, it uses to much fuel, it's emissions are too high, it uses oil, the AA man might not be able to fix it. :rolleyes:

In short... u should buy a different car. Maybe u should wait for the Jag or buy a VX220 Turbo (33mpg isn't bad)

It's only the looks u like, but u will have to live with the engine every day u drive it. Think about it, u know I'm right.

[garygfx]

Cor, now YOU are trying to put me off the car! I was doing a pretty good job all by myself! ;) There isn't really any other car on the market that excites me or offers as many extras as the RX8. The Jag is too far away (if it goes into production) and the VX220 is too crampt inside, has no extras whatsoever, and er, it's got a Vauxhall badge! ;) I'm waiting for another test drive in the first week of October. I keep playing those Japanese videos of RX8 racing... I want it... oil... no, I want it... need to stock up on oil... no, sex on wheels, must buy it... :confused:

[Deathknell]

Originally posted by garygfx
There isn't really any other car on the market that excites me or offers as many extras as the RX8.

And he reels him in. :evillaugh

I think you've answered your own question:)

Whats there to be confused about? As I've already sent you messages about checking oil - no manufacturer (that I know of)
will cover your car for engine damage due to lack of oil if you tell them "i've never checked the oil level".

It's even part of the driving test now, I think you should just face up to the fact that you should have always been checking it:D

Luck (at never having destroyed an engine) and laxity (over basic car maintenance) on your part should not prevent you from getting the RX-8.

[Martiny]

"There isn't really any other car on the market that excites me or offers as many extras as the RX8"

Well, there you go! Thats what really makes us buy a car. If you are just after practicality and economy, Micra for you! Its the EMOTION that wins in the end. You mentioned the Fuel usage - Just look at all the 4x4s around that get 20mpg or even less. They bought them because they WANTED them. ( I dont understand why, but they do. They probably dont understand why I'm on my 10th Rotary Engined car).

If I had the money, I would be getting one- RX-8, that is! Probably will get a used one in the future.

Now, if only they would build that rumoured RX-3!!!!!

[Martiny]

"There isn't really any other car on the market that excites me or offers as many extras as the RX8"

Well, there you go! Thats what really makes us buy a car. If you are just after practicality and economy, Micra for you! Its the EMOTION that wins in the end. You mentioned the Fuel usage - Just look at all the 4x4s around that get 20mpg or even less. They bought them because they WANTED them. ( I dont understand why, but they do. They probably dont understand why I'm on my 10th Rotary Engined car).

If I had the money, I would be getting one- RX-8, that is! Probably will get a used one in the future.

Now, if only they would build that rumoured RX-3!!!!!

[clive]

Well done Martin , most excellent post full of the stuff that makes a lot of us love the rotary cars we own and that also drove the Mazda Warriors to perfect the Rotary in the first place.

It's that little bit of stuff called 'PASSION'




All the best Clive
clive@mazdarotaryclub.com
www.mazdarotaryclub.com

[soarer2k]

I doubt about the 248HP before mazda announced the new lowered HP rating, Best Motoring Japan had conducted a test that include DC5(Integra Type R) S2000 and G35.. I forgot the rest, both S2000 and DC5 were faster in the track as well as straight, even the the Time attack. The comments from the drivers were like.. well. good handling but lack of power is the problem. That's because Mazda always overstates their HP, I have a MX-5, bought it because Mazda claimed the new VVT can make it 160HP.. I saw a test in Japan,before Mazda make it 142HP, which shows the updated miata is actually SLOWER, they changed the tire to 15 inch instead of 16 inch, to compensate the lossed time so in the second round, updated Miata is faster then old miata by around tenth of a second..not soo long after that One famouse magazine pointed out the same problem so Mazda adjusted their HP rating. I mean is that the best Mazda can do? I like the cars produced from Mazda, MX5, RX7, RX8, MazdaSpeed Protege... that's why I own MX5 and MP3.. but after the RX8 issue, I lost faith in Mazda Engine engineers, but still love their chassic department... I just hope they won't do it again....

[MikeLMR]

I think most of the problem is the marketing section of mazda (and lots of other companies) in North America, I don't think any of the other regions have had a problem with overstated power figures. (Mazda UK downgraded the numbers at least twice)

[conehead]

I agree (up to a point) with Mike that it was the marketing people who :censored::censored::censored::censored:ed it all up.

All the literature I recieved up to June this year quoted 250hp. Mazda made very liberal use of these figures. OK, there were (very small print) disclaimers, but the instant Mazda knew they could only achieve 228hp (UK version), we should have been told.

I find it impossible to believe that Mazda technicians didn't know about this earlier. In fact, I think they did know but didn't tell until the last minute they could. No wonder they gave all the reviewers the Jap spec car. Imagine what the early reviews would have been like on the UK spec...somewhat different I think.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, this is not about the final power or the fuel economy figures, but about trust. If I had ONLY been told the final figures then this would have been a non-issue. I think they failed in their duty to provide accurate and timely information. So, how can you trust them not to do it again? Personally I can't.

Finally, what really irks me is how unprofessional it all is. The car market is so cut-throat these days that these sort of problems are really unforgivable for a manufacturer - particularly one who needs some cash (to put Ford in profit).

C.

[GaryS]

Not the first tiem they've done it recently either.

When the MK2.5 MX-5 came out last year, the variable valve engine was quoted with a higher figure than reality, resulted in Mazda being sued over it in the US as well. Not only that, but the extra power over the normal engine only came on at 7000 rpm, remembering teh rev limitter is at 7,500.